DBS Group Stock

Okay. Hi, everyone. You would have had the media briefing. So as usual, we'll just go straight to Q&A.

So first question from Yong Hong from Citi.

Can you here me?

Yes.

This is Yong Hong from Citi. So just 3 questions, just asking about Wealth. My first question is on your 1 billion AUM target. That implies that the well AUM can grow at 11% CAGR through 2030. So could you share some color on the net new money with the migration from [indiscernible] versus the impact the market impact assumption for this? That is my first question.

Okay. I'll kick off and Sok Hui follow. So when Sok Hui said $1 trillion, he said total wealth, including retail wealth, right? So the current figure for the wealth, including treasure, searches private line and PB is [ 516 billion ], right? And if you need to know the retail figure, the retail figure is [ 160 billion ]. So in total, we include retail, the total figure and retail is 30,000 and above, then the total figure today [ 680 million ]. So we've been compounding at about 8% growth for the wealth site every year. We can add more effort and push it up. Let's see.

And then the retail side, there's been also snowballing and growing quite nicely. There's a few levers that Sok Hui and the team are pushing from the digital wealth, regular plan, CDP, CPF, et cetera, et cetera. So there's a lot of levers we can pull. Taiwan also, that's a few [indiscernible] that we're pulling, upgrading our wealth type there, et cetera.

So we it's optimistic, but not unrealistic, right? It's doable. We have the ambition, and we're just going to execute to it. Is it good?

Yes. I mean so building on what Su Shan has said, so if you look at it, it's 680 billion today as of half year this year, right? So the $1 trillion target we're setting for ourselves is by end of 2030. So again, I'm not going to say that it's easy but it is something that is quite doable. If we continue on the kind of traction trajectory that we have been making.

So just for discussion sake. I mean, if you look at it at 680, 680 our net new money. Our net new money only covering treasuries, TPC and PV have been consistently above $40 billion per annum now. So if we're talking about another 4 full years from 27, '28, '29, '30, or else equal, same time of tractor, the uplift of about $160 billion without even adding retail, right? $160 billion, so $160 billion if you think about [ $680 million at $160 million ] right? [indiscernible] So the $1 trillion plus another [ 160 million ].

Really, if you look at the way our AUM have grown, it's always been a function of both net new money as well as the cash translated to investments and when market moves, right? So far, AUM growth has been a function of these 2. So all else equal in 4.5 years from now, as we said, nothing is a walk in the park, right? We all still need to work hard at it, but it's not something that is so out of whack that we don't think is achievable.

Then building on what Su Shan has said, of course, there are quite a number of levers that we pushing, pulling. We have seen actually quite good traction when we relaunched [ RTG ] wealth last year for the retail space. Just not even having any RMs of human beings, but simply using technology, AI and nudging, the uptick has been very, very encouraging of customers now getting into investments, getting into insurance. And at the same time, proactively contacting us to say that they were the top [indiscernible], for example, about their financial planning, including insurance.

So this ability for us to use AI use technology to harmonize what we have said from a kind of digital approach, right, of having both human beings and technology is very, very real.

Okay. Let me just pulling out on that and assuming we can get to the power of growing at 10% CAGR. How should the cost-to-income ratio like over the next 5 years? Because if you think about cost-to-income ratio at 40%, then OpEx growth should be at about 10% on a CAGR as well just doing the calculation mathematically. So just wondering if this is the right pace of growth rate to think about OpEx?

Are you looking at the whole bank or just the wealth business?

For the whole bank on a group perspective.

Okay. So in the near term, we've been able to keep our expense growth at circa 4%, sometimes slightly below, but it's been quite stable. And we are able to also keep the structural growth engines firing. So we're still hiring. So it's not that we're not hiring. And we're sending our people to go up the curve to do more to go, which means you have to pay them more, right? They do more, you pay them more. So they're also getting more CVM more productive or scale, et cetera.

But I think with the [indiscernible] tools, they can do more, right? And that's the point. I mean, all my managers, myself, my team, their management team, they're all expecting their teams to do more with the tools that they have. And a lot of it is also reskilling quite a lot of our old staff into higher order jobs, right? So if you used to be a level 1 production engineer, you now learn to become a level 2 production engineer and a wealth tech engineer for that, right? So that means you have to then do a know that you are management and you've got to do keep going using AI on tech.

So that means we have to train them and it takes time to train down, but when we train them, they become more productive, and they get paid for, but they are doing a higher for the job, and we haven't changed our head count, right? So we're trying to do more with less people or we are still growing where we need to grow but we're also shrinking where we need to shrink price. So I think I see us being disciplined around costs and trying to keep it at the 40 or 40's figure.

Okay. Okay. Maybe just one final question. Just following up on the media questions. In the context of these China closing [indiscernible] to the 20% tax up in offshore class. Any color on what is the exposure of offshore gas, especially from Mainland China for your group AUM and [indiscernible] extension to that. Any thoughts on where direction China increase on offshore [indiscernible] given the recent development and how [indiscernible].

You know -- I understand your question correctly, you're asking what proportion -- well, how much we have in offshore trust? And we feel the impact of all these measures from China is going to be as well.

Okay. I kind of answered it just not at the media. I don't know whether you we're there. The 2 directors, right? One is the [ 837 ] directive, which is really more around outbound investments and it affected more of the online [indiscernible] and the other [indiscernible], which affects more of the offshore trust. Our actual amount of trust is actually quite small for China nationals. And on the insurance announcement, there's been nothing official and nothing conclusive yet. So we have to keep our eye on the ball.

But I mentioned that we are building both offshore franchise and onshore franchise, right? And so -- and also, we have always abided by regulations. We are not a fintech that doesn't do reporting. We do all our CRS reporting. We do all our plant declarations, the client has to sign off, et cetera. So we do the right thing. And sometimes, we are handicapped. We are slower to onboard because it takes us longer versus on onshore or online brokerage. So I think this does 2 things. That is equalizes the playing field. It's not bad for lower [indiscernible] like us, plus we are offshore, we are with China. So if wealth stays also the more potential for us to grow our onshore business and our actual exposure [indiscernible] as is relatively small.

And if I may just add to that as well. Some of these regulations really are really around the requirement for onshore residents to report and all that for their own personal tax purposes. And as Su Shan mentioned, we are abide by regulations customers will have to do what they have to do. But the reasons and the purposes for which they avail themselves with some of these services, including trust, it's really not just about tax, right? It's also about their own family governance, transition legacy planning and all that.

So in the more holistic solutioning or advice that we offer, not just to Chinese clients, but across the board to Su Shan's point, actually, the proportion is not that big in that sense. But notwithstanding the holistic solutions we bring comes across for all many, many kinds of reasons, okay? So it's not just this particular thing that this particular -- these particular new changes that might affect what they need to kind of declare onshore, right? It's much broader than that.

Next question from Nick Lord from Morgan Stanley.

A couple of questions for me. Just first of all, I want to come back and just get a little bit more detail on your Wealth Management numbers. I wonder if you could give us the split between invested and deposits in that [ 517 ] or whatever it is, [ 516 billion ]. And also any indication you can give us on the split between net new money between deposits and invested assets.

The other question, I'd just like to ask, I mean, just in terms of our fee growth, it does seem that the investment products on fee income was quite high in the quarter, looks to be running at double [ 8% ] normally. So just if there was anything specific on sort of product behavior or investment behavior in the quarter you'd like to call out.

And then just switching on something else on just -- you talked about SRTs, Su Shan, it obviously looks like we're in a higher loan growth environment going forward, which is great news. That's obviously going to consume capital. I noticed your credit risk-weighted assets were up a chunk in the first half. So can you just talk a little bit about how you might use SRTs going forward? And what sort of impact that might have on risk-weighted asset growth versus [indiscernible]?

Okay. We'll take the first question around the split between Wealth Management of what's going into investments. So it went from 58% to 59%. So that was up 1% in the quarter. And when you ask what that the growth? By the way, the growth was interesting, while wealth did extremely well, but it was also an IBG our corporate bank and in SME. So what led the growth fees figure this first half has been equities and equity structures. So like the U.S. investment banks, when you have volatility and opportunity and new IPOs and what have you within the markets that -- whether that's structural or cyclical to be determined. But you will get a boost in both cash equity and equity structured products. So that's been quite strong.

There was also a strong -- very strong double-digit growth in funds. Our CIO has a barbell DPM, and that's been doing very well, growing by double digit. And we've launched on a few discretionary products that were very well received, hedge funds and the like. And also in private equity, we did some pre-IPOs that were also very well received. So that was also strong double-digit growth. In the corporate banking side, it was transaction banking that was -- we had a very strong first quarter last year -- first half last year for syndicated loan so it was our syndicated loan fees were down a bit year-on-year, but it was still quite a strong pipeline. And transaction banking had a strong pipeline. I don't know whether freedoms to weigh in on the fees or there was [ ECM ] fees and M&A fees as well and origination fees.

I think on the IBG side, the growth comes primarily from deepening our relationship with our clients. So when you see the numbers. You see that the transaction services fees are up, I think, by about [indiscernible] year-on-year [indiscernible]. A lot of it comes from what we do on the underlying cash management fees that we get from trade finance. And of course, you get it from [ SFS ] for the custody fees as well far.

So all that coming through quite nicely. Second quarter, we also saw nice fees from the financing an advisory that we do for [ Celcom ] acquisition of [ Alinta ], and that was booked in the second quarter as well.

I forgot to mention back for IBG and CBG had very strong bank sales as well, SME business owners and wealth clients.

Nick, where you asking a question about the North fee component as well?

Yes. I thought that was about 200 million in the quarter. It's usually 100 million to 130 million, something like that.

Yes. So the -- what we call treasury customer sales that I think they are referring to the category. So for a cooking purpose, we will need to split the lines what we take from our own treasury, our own dealing room, they manufacture the product. The products are frankly quite similar, equity structures, equity derivatives that customers want. These are their financial solutions but we can't call them the fees, and it's actually manufactured in our own dealing room. It is manufactured by a third-party bank, then we book it as fees. So that's why that number has also been growing. And in this quarter has been strong growth in the equity derivatives and structured notes, very similar to what you're actually seeing in the demand on the fee side.

Are you bringing more products in-house? Is it [indiscernible]?

No, we don't break in more products in-house. I think we are on an open platform actually. It's just that more of the products that were taken this quarter, I think, were manufactured in-house because of the equity derivative component.

And or [ SRTs ]?

Okay. Phil will take that.

Yes. Nick, this is Phil. So for the [ SRC ], business just, I guess, us opening a new product in this market. As you know, we have the first covered bond 20 years ago, and now it's a fairly established feature in the Singapore market. So some a little bit [ SRT ]. It's just -- it's one tool in the toolbox, right? Obviously, the strict loan sell-down, the syndications, there's various other ways we can manage our credit risk, our credit RWE. But we felt that this was a product that was worth bringing to Singapore. So we spent more than a year actually preparing and doing all the groundwork and ensuring that we could crosses the transaction, talking to investors.

So I think we kind of did a bit of groundbreaking for the market as a whole, which is good. And we'll see how it goes. Obviously, we want to keep a full toolbox of mechanisms for managing our credit RWE and this is one of them.

Okay. Cool. Do you sorry, just on credit RWAs, I mean, therefore, would you expect them to grow in line with loans? Or do you think you can manage credit RWA growth below loan growth?

It will be about the same. Essentially, if you look at our past trends, the second quarter was -- showed more loan growth. But if you assume that the risk weight density is relatively constant, then the RWA and the loan growth tend to move in line unless there's a change in mix.

I think he's asking with the [ SRT ].

Well, we will see how that particular product.

I depends on many SRTs, we launched 2 per year, and I think that actually benefits the growth trajectory of the RWA.

Okay. So you can use it, but we just got to see how much demand is for it and how it takes off as a product.

Exactly.

Next question from Melissa from Goldman.

During the call, you talk a bit about Taiwan and how that will be a growth driver. Maybe can you just share a little bit more details on Taiwan, like how much does that contribute to net new money to AUM? Also on the loan side, how much did that kind of bring in, in terms of the loans? And in that perspective, then how should we kind of look at it going forward? That's my first question.

Then second question, maybe given all this just news on tax and all these. Can you just share again what is the Chinese contribution to net new money? And also on the banker side as well, if you can just share how much banker contributed to well and also how much -- I heard just now you were saying that the banker doesn't include just wealth. It does include some SME. So maybe if you can just help with that idea. It's also that we can understand it a little bit.

And then if I can just ask a -- sorry, just the third question on sensitivity. You mentioned also on the call that you managed to do more hedging this quarter. So just wonder if there's any change to sensitivity for your NIM?

Okay. So there were 3 questions there. One was around Taiwan. One was around net new money by nationality and one on [indiscernible] the backup question, I didn't hear.

Some flavor about how much that contributes including SME.

How much it contributes. And the fourth question [indiscernible] okay. So actually unchanged okay. So we -- okay. So in short, we're not -- we don't -- so we don't divert the net new money by nationality. Your question around Taiwan, it's really one where it's structural growth, right? So -- and number one, it's the ecosystem growing for semiconductors for AI, for hardware, and that's a real growth, the [ Foxcon ] ecosystem, the NVIDIA ecosystem, the TSF ecosystem, the [indiscernible] all cylinders. So the structural growth there is real.

Number two, the wealth, creation is relatively new, but they are all families that the business have been doing the business for a long time. But their wealth creation, some of them, especially AI construct, the well picked up has been very sharp, and now they are needing solutions. It's quite concentrated and it's onshore, so they need onshore solutions. And they also need offshore solutions, right? And then they need planning as well for the next generation, et cetera. In the offshore side, that's the new Kaohsiung Wealth Center, and we set out there. our purchase of [ Citi ] Taiwan's franchise has been quite timely because with the franchise scheme, both wealth clients [indiscernible] hours, but also a really good high-end credit card franchise that as we use AI and RMs to uncover, we're finding a lot of hidden treasure in that franchise as well. We found some even billionaires and all that who hold our credit cards today, and we can use that as a hope to do more.

We are also experimenting with the use of AI from voice to tax, tax to propensity models at the cards call center to also of a lot of this cards wealth client potential. So good and the team are all of our [indiscernible] all over this both onshore/offshore. We think that we will see strong double digit. We've given that big budgets to grow this year, and we will probably continue to want to put big budgets on them to grow next year. So it's been one of our best-performing markets. That's Taiwan.

China, no, we don't really give net new money by nationality. In [ PBTPC ], we have 110 different nationalities. So it's very well spread. Do you want to add anything Sok Hui?

Yes. I mean, suffice to say that once on the Taiwan piece, in particular, what we have seen very clearly is that after the integration of the city franchise from a couple of years ago, actually, we look at it, it's added additional scale to us on the wealth business as well apart on cards. But more importantly, actually, because of our ability to bring in a holistic investment and insurance solution onshore. What we've discovered is that the same cohort of customers actually more with us than they had done with Citi. So if we look at it, we are way beyond just the pro forma addition of the 2 franchises. We have done a lot better than Citi had it when they had the same customers, right?

[indiscernible].

So Banca as a proportion to the total franchise, if you look at them, I will say it's in the range of, let's say, 20-ish percent, right? Yes. Yes, wealthy 20-ish percent, 20-ish percent of wealth.

Yes, it's 20-ish. Correct.

Then maybe just sensitivity.

The sensitivity. That hasn't changed. It's still for [indiscernible] plus $11 million per basis point for U.S. dollars, minus $4 million per basis point. Do you want to say anything else? Okay. Still the same Melissa.

Next question from Aakash, UBS.

Two sets of questions. The first one is just touching on the China-related regulations again. So I understand you said that you don't share the net new money break by nationality, but I think DBS has said in the past that less than 1/3 of the net new money comes from Chinese clients. I was just wondering, without giving any specifics, can you say within this cohort, how much is main and domiciled clients as opposed to all the offshore Chinese clients. Just some rough idea of what portion is million domicile was not. And have you seen any change in the inflow of this clientele in the past 1 to 2 months? That would be the first question, and maybe I'll ask more after that.

[indiscernible], can I just take this question. As we have mentioned earlier on, we do not disclose the details of either nationality, not all domicile. Having said that, within our net new money, as we've guided and Su Shan has talked about, actually, our entire wealth franchise does have both an onshore element and an offshore element. So obviously, if we're talking about kind of our onshore treasures, onshore retail, emerging affluent kind of net new money, right? The net new money would all be onshore, right? Wherever we have an onshore presence, which are in our core markets, right?

Now if we're talking about our offshore wealth franchise, which are predominantly booked in Singapore, Hong Kong, because Singapore, Hong Kong have been traditional international wealth centers like Switzerland, like London, like the U.S. themselves, right, where when we look at the wealth business, there's always kind of set numbers that the world looks at as international well flows into these international centers. Now what I'll say is that for these offshore wells, Actually, these offshore wells have been circulating within the offshore markets.

So in case you're thinking, how much it flow from onshore to offshore, the fact of the matter is that in these offshore markets, the is we are winning market share from other banks from their offshore port. If that's what you're kind of getting to, right? So we are growing both onshore, onshore and offshore, offshore. And those are growing very strongly on multiple fronts.

Great. I think that's very helpful. Is it possible you share some relative size of the 2 businesses? So how much is the onshore China business versus offshore China business?

No, I'm afraid we do not go into that level of detail. But we do have, I would say, a very robust wealth franchise, as you have seen how we have been performing all this time, right?

Okay. And then on the insurance sales. So again, life savings insurance products, would you have any sense of how much of these sales are to mail and connected clients?

Sorry? On what?

[indiscernible] the bank or sales are to mainland connected clients? We don't break it down.

I mean, again, yes, we don't break it down, but again, suffice to say within each of those markets in which we operate in, there is an insurance offering onshore, right? So whether it is in Singapore, in Hong Kong, in Taiwan, in India, in Indonesia and in China, there are regulated insurance partners that we work with to offer these solutions. And these are all kind of advised distributed booked onshore, right?

And then, of course, in our wealth centers offshore, Likewise, there are insurance solutions, a fair amount of debt also for legacy planning which is not uncommon.

So that's a difference between a DBS and a global bank, right? We are in the 6 core markets in Asia. So we are onshore. And we have onshore partners, and we have branches, we have wealth centers. And we have our apps [indiscernible]. We are the onshore bank and in the in offshore solutions, we're there for them, too.

Right. But can I understand that, and I think I appreciate the comment that you made earlier that if well stays onshore, DBS also has a strong onshore presence to participate into that wealth as opposed to just offshore. But I just wonder, is the nature of the business very different onshore versus offshore. Onshore, I mean, you all know in the Bell management business a lot more competitive, margins would be a lot more tenor. And this would -- if onshore wealth were to stay onshore in the future, the wealth management business for DBS would look very different from what it does today. But that will be a...

I wouldn't say so, Aakash, because actually, this has always been the way wealth management has functioned, right? So the difference will be that in many of these onshore markets with the exception of, let's say, Hong Kong, Singapore being international centers that in themselves, right? So the so-called onshore clients in Hong Kong and Singapore already have the ability to access full holistic suite of products and solutions that are international, right? You go to certain other markets the kind of products and solutions might be or the onshore solutions in some of the markets might be somewhat lesser, somewhat lesser because they are subject to whatever is available onshore, right?

But for -- as I've mentioned earlier on, that is still sufficient for us to tap into the onshore wealth opportunities, and we have seen that growing actually across all our onshore [indiscernible] franchise, right? But within the offshore ones, as it's always operated, would it be very different. I mean if you look at what the market says, right, between Singapore, Hong Kong, international wealth itself is today already $5 trillion, right, of AUM, growing at the fastest pace, even faster than Switzerland. And by 2030, this $5 trillion will be about $7.9 trillion.

So the offshore, offshore proposition has always been there continues to grow. The onshore, onshore has always been there and it's also growing in our core markets. Asia is generating a lot of wealth and Asia is attracting a lot of wealth coming in.

So Aakash, I think it will grow, right? And we're ready for that growth. I think we got products like the mutually recognized -- mutually recognized fund product, which is MRF. We've got funding SIPs. We have DBS Securities onshore. We are active in onshore insurance policies. So I think you need to build both, right, to be a holistic wealth offer in Asia, you need to build both, and that's exactly what we've been doing. So that gives us a diversified client mix. So if one channel goes down, the other goes up, right? That gives us a diversified client mix.

And I think a brand name like DBS in China has a good chance of success because we were not involved in any of the trust products where customers lost a lot of money. We've stayed away from selling CDOs and CDS, et cetera, we've been pretty holistic in our wealth offerings onshore. And we've gotten a good reputation for being a safe bank and a smart bank and a digital bank. So I think we have upside onshore, which is why [ Zuken ] and his team are building wealth centers in China. And if -- and the money stays onshore, there's no property to buy not buying properties, then they will be looking for wealth solutions. So I see upside bank, and we're building for it.

Clearly, we're doing it, not just in China, all right? These wealth centers I've clearly hold the market, right, that we are building 18 additional wealth centers and upgrading another 36 existing ones. Now these are actually across all our core markets, right? So in Singapore, even in Singapore. So Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, China, Indonesia, India, we are kind of doing that, right? So we are hiring, we are putting technology that enable them. And we are also adding new as well as upgrading existing wealth centers.

Got it. I think that's very helpful. I just have one related question. So Su Shan, I think with all this complexity and uncertainty in the Hong Kong, China, corridor. I mean, DBS does look very well positioned. Are you starting to see any net new money benefits because of all these challenging headwinds in the North?

Net new money benefits for what?

For the DBS Wealth Management business because the whole Hong Kong China corridor is so complex now. Is DBS net beneficiary of all that? Like instead of money going to standard [ HSBC ] in Hong Kong is coming to DBS simply put.

I think suffice to say, I don't think I will look at it from just this single ends, right? But I'll look at it really from a much broader lens, which is the reason we are quietly confident about the wealth opportunity, which is the fact that, number one, there's a lot of wells being created in Asia.

Number two, we are also seeing interestingly a lot of interest in Asia even from customers outside of Asia, right, namely from European countries, from the Middle East, et cetera. And that goes to what I mentioned earlier on that the $5 trillion looks like it's going to grow to $7.9 trillion, right? And this is about international wealth. Over and above the domestic or should I say, Asian wealth that's being created. So I look at it from that lens.

And the way we get DBS. I think DBS benefits from the fact that -- we are an Asian headquartered Asian headquartered bank and the headquarter is in Singapore, where we are known to exercise the rule of law, stability, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And that's -- I guess that's the reason why we have been named by Euro [indiscernible], right, as the best private bank in the world and safest private bank and on top of the other [indiscernible] we have won from Global Finance and Euromoney over the years as a bank at large. So I do think we benefit from that.

We have also kind of won best innovation bank, et cetera. So I think it's a sum total of many of these factors where any macro trends, I would say whether it is some of these that you talk about or the or the geopolitics instability in the world, et cetera. We tend to see DBS benefit because of also the Singapore brand.

And also, I think the differentiator for DPS is the One Bank Solution. So our corporate bankers are very much part of the business growth, the supply chain diversification the connectivity opportunities in South, Southeast Asia, et cetera. So being there to connect that business growth means that you then have a front seat or early start in the Wealth Management as well.

So our team worked together, they hunt impacts. And so if we're helping corporate clients grow in Southeast Asia, South Asia, or elsewhere, that's always opportunities offshore as well.

Okay. I think we have to move on. So next question from Jayden from Macquarie.

Just on the capital management side. I think, obviously, the business is in great shape, and you've increased the guidance. Now the $0.15 special capital return dividends, if I understood correctly, they'll sort of come through this year and then next year. Any thoughts on being able to sustain it longer or even think about a revised sort of dividend path because it does sound like the outlook for the business is actually very strong. We'll be keen for your thoughts on this.

Thank you very much, Jayden. So if you look at the capital return dividend, we set it up because we wanted to return excess dividend. And by definition, the excess dividend should be a finite amount. So I think we'll continue to calibrate. But I would say that we do not sort of intend to sort of keep it as a continual feature of our capital management.

Okay. And if I may ask a follow-up question, Sok Hui, I think there is a buyback obviously. Can you sort of remind us how much is remaining of the funds that were set aside for the buyback? And I guess, what the current sort of expiry dates for that would be?

Yes. So we set up to sort of do a $3 billion share buyback. And to date, we've done $0.4 billion. So there's $2.6 billion that's unutilized, and the time frame is end of 2027, as we originally communicated. And we think that at this kind of price to book it's a bit challenging to go and do share buyback. We have better deployment of the capital. And so we are thinking and is subject to board discussion, board approval, and we still have 1.5 years to go before we make the decision. But it is possible that we may, if -- we don't sort of utilize the $2.6 billion were converted into a capital return dividend as well because those are all excess dividend that we had calibrated to be paid out but it's not back to further discussions at the board level.

Next question from Sukriti from Bank of America.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Just one follow-up on Wealth Management and one quick question on loan growth. On wealth management, of course, we've had many standout years now. Looking ahead, when we think about growth. You mentioned the -- over the next few years, we could continue to see net new money at [ $40 billion ] plus. But overall, on the fee side, how are you seeing trends there is competition or will that fee momentum also continue to support the wealth expansion? Or do you think at some point that fee momentum kind of stays where details a little bit. And most of the growth will be supported from here from the offshore booking centers? Or is it more broad-based across offshore and onshore?

Okay. We'll take it and then I'll consolate the loan growth side, [indiscernible], we'll take that, and then Sok Hui could amplify find my answers. So fee growth is a function of a few things, right? Number one, it's a function of the market. The good thing is global markets don't tend to move together. Sometimes U.S. goes up, Asia goes down, Asia goes up U.S. goes down. [indiscernible] go down, some of the stocks go up, right? Gold goes up, whatever.

So the good news is the fee income is cyclical. This market dependent, but it is if you are not just geared to a single stop or single country or single product, if you have a diversified offering, you should -- you will have some volatility, but you should still have growth.

Then the second component of fee income is obviously a number of customers, right, and net new money. If you continue to grow that, you should continue to grow your fee income in line with your new clients and your new net money net new money.

The third component is new to product, right? So sometimes, clients start with one product and they buy another one or they invest another one, et cetera. So the velocity of that sort of inclination to new products also helps. Then the fourth component is AI, right? Because your productivity is as good as your tools and your people and your ideation. And can AI help all 3? Yes. AI can help on ideation. AI can help you not your customers. AI can help you inform your RMs and your investment [indiscernible], AI can help you fulfill trades. And so if you use AI smartly along the customer wealth journey, you can also use AI [indiscernible] your fee income.

So these 4 things taken together should mean that if you have a holistic grounding for your wealth clients and you are able to give them ideas. You can asset we allocate, you got to shift with the markets. You help them make money and you keep them safe when the chips are down. and you keep them diversified and you keep the portfolios healthy, you will gain market share. And that's what we intend to do. We intend to gain market share, right? Sok Hui and the team have a lot of ambition to gain market share. The good news is as for at the level we are. The gap between us and #1 and 2 is still very big. And those growth is still matter. So we still have a lot of white space that we need to cover, and the team is working very hard to cover that white space growth. Sok Hui, do you want to amplify that?

Yes. Yes, thank you, Su Shan. I think on the fee side, right? To Su Shan's point, a lot of that also has to do with diversification of the various investments, insurance solutions. So suffice to say that we have today already put on a pretty comprehensive suite, right, our products and services. So whichever way the market goes, I do think that we have sufficient solutions, and we have seen how customers rotate in and out as well. At the same time, likewise, the way we are building out these fees, right, also has an element which will be kind of recurring.

There are also those that I would say are episodic or some that are not necessarily episodic, but it's still the ongoing distribution kind of fees. So there are multiple levers or should I say multiple kind of drivers that contribute to this fee income. So I do think that is something we can continue to sustain with volumes as well.

Then what is onshore, offshore, I would say, yes, actually both, right? As I alluded to earlier on, we do have a full suite of onshore products and services, likewise, the offshore ones. So I don't see anything imminent, right, that is going to suggest a different kind of trajectory in that sense.

Understood. Sir, just one quick follow-up on the Wealth side. On the offshore booking centers -- sorry, onshore booking centers, you mentioned the 6 key markets where you are expanding the number and growing it to 18. But are there any new markets that you may be looking at as well within Asia, we do have markets like Korea where is also growing. I know you did a partnership with Samsung there recently. But is there any thought process to expand to more pockets?

Okay? So there is no plan to open up in new markets per se, right? Like what we have in our core markets now, right, the 6 core markets plus what we have in Thailand, right, which is secure this business. So it's a 6 plus 1. No immediate thought about any of that kind of onshore, onshore expansion. When I mentioned earlier on the wealth centers, right? These are all wealth centers within these markets. So 18 new ones that we're adding, as I've mentioned, even in our own home base in Singapore, we're going to add some. And then we have some existing ones, 36 of them, which we will upgrade right as well. So that's what we're trying to do, right? But no new entry market in that sense, right?

So last question from Wai-Fai from HSBC. Wai-Fai? We can hear Wai-Fai. You want to drop me an e-mail or text Wai-Fai. Maybe in the meantime, I think there's one follow-up question from Yong Hong.

Yong Hong are you there?

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Maybe just a follow-up on loans. That was very strong. Could we get some color on the key drivers, how sustainable that is? And also some thoughts on how your risk management about these loans, especially around the [indiscernible] just in case, basically in the next few years, the spending from the digital sectors normalized in the years to come.

Yong Hong, thanks for the question. As you saw in the second quarter for our non-trade loans is very strong. And if you unpeel that essentially [ 4 billion ] is what we would normally do based on the underlying security that we see from our clients, the penetration. And then there is the opportunistic growth that we saw in the second quarter of about $6 billion.

Half of that comes from the [indiscernible] complete acquisition, which we did to bridge financing for them. And then there is also the opportunity that we saw from the whole [ GRS ] financing on real estate in Singapore, but it's a fair number of loans generated there. On the side, it's actually a lot of what we call short-term financing. It's the short-term loans taken up by the customers in Taiwan. And then there's a little bit of DC financing and Singapore and a small project in the U. S.

In terms of what we do on data center, the number is not large. We're involved in a lot of underwriting and then we typically sell down a huge change, and that's where we made the fees out of it. And so all of our data center financing are very well structured. Yes, triple net leases for those in the U.S. with no preterm. And so the color parties are very strong on the underlying on the take up. And so not too much concern around that.

So overall, the momentum goes with what we see in the general macro which is some of it in AI, some of it in ERI, real estate, primarily in Singapore. And then we were also supporting our clients and other acquisitions that we do in the aircraft leasing industry.

Yes. Then on the sustainability part, should we be expecting this kind of growth run rate for the rest of the year and maybe even into next year, just based on the pipeline?

Yes. I think the underlying growth momentum, we are looking for somewhere between [ 5% ] every quarter and the steady state that we're aiming for. The repayments that we can't predict. And so when you look at repayment itself, there will be repayment from customers where they saw some of the higher loan rates that they get. And as a result of that, some repayments could be vary. We do have some line of sight for some that has already come in. And so the growth itself will be essentially be dependent on the rate of repayment because the [indiscernible] and then the acquisition one, they come and come and we will [indiscernible].

[indiscernible] just 2 questions. One is to comment on the wealth management momentum in July. And the other is how to think about potential GP [indiscernible].

Our momentum was okay in July, right? It was quite well spread. [indiscernible] is okay, still up on the year. We shouldn't give the numbers yet enough, but it was pretty decent across the board.

Yes, yes. I think it's a fairly -- yes, I'll say fairly Yes, robust within the expectations.

On GP?

I think you asked a write back. I think we sort of continue to stress test our portfolio. I think the macro environment is quite uncertain. And I think we have always taken a prudent approach to anticipate what might be needed. So you heard that we have taken sort of general provisions ahead of Hong Kong real estate and then they will all pay back, and so we released some general provision. So that tells you that we have always taken a more prudent approach. And therefore, we'll continue to stress test and depending on external environment, which continues to be very unpredictable that will guide us on a decision of what GPs we can release.

Okay. I think that's it for the call. We've come to the end. So thank you, everyone, for joining. We will speak to you again next quarter.

Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

Okay. Good morning, everybody, and a very warm welcome to DBS' Second Quarter 2026 Financial Results Briefing. This morning, we announced second quarter net profit rose 9% to a record $3.08 billion as quarterly total income crossed $6 billion for the first time.

With us, we have our CEO, Tan Su Shan; and our CFO, Chng Sok Hui to tell us more.

So without further ado, Sok Hui, please.

Good morning, everyone. So we delivered a record performance in the second quarter. Net profit rose 9% from a year ago to reach a new high of $3.08 billion while return on equity was 17.9% and return on tangible equity was 19.6%. Total income grew 6% and crossed $6 billion for the first time. The increase was driven by higher noninterest income, underpinned by the structural growth of our customer franchise. In particular, robust wealth management momentum was maintained. Fee income was near record levels and treasury customer sales reached a new high. We also mitigated significant interest rate headwinds with balance sheet growth and proactive hedging. Meanwhile, markets trading income strengthened as we benefited from lower funding costs and capitalized on volatile markets.

For the first half, net profit rose 5% to a record $6.01 billion. Total income increased 3% to a new high as record fee income and treasury customer sales more than offset lower net interest income. Asset quality was resilient. Total non-performing assets were little changed from the previous quarter, as new NPA formation was offset by repayments and write-offs. The NPL ratio was stable at 1.0%, while specific allowances remained below the through the cycle average at 16 basis points of loans for the second quarter and 15 basis points for the first half. Allowance coverage was 130% and 196% after considering collateral. Capital remained strong. The CET1 ratio was 16.6% on a transitional basis and 14.6% on a fully phased-in basis.

The board declared a total dividend of $0.81 per share for the second quarter, comprising a $0.66 ordinary dividend and a $0.15 capital return dividend. Next slide. Second quarter year-on-year performance. For the second quarter, net profit rose 9% from a year ago to a record $3.08 billion. Group net interest income declined 2% to $3.58 billion as strong loan and deposit growth, together with proactive hedging, mitigated the impact of lower interest rates. Fee income rose 25%, or $293 million to $1.46 billion, led by wealth management. Commercial book other non-interest income grew 30%, or $159 million to a new high of $681 million, driven by record treasury customer sales. Markets trading income strengthened 12%, or $51 million to $469 million, benefiting from volatile markets and lower funding costs. Expenses increased 3%, or $77 million, to $2.35 billion from higher staff costs.

The cost-to-income ratio was 39%. Profit before allowances rose 8% to a record $3.75 billion. Total allowances fell 15%, or $20 million to $113 million. Specific allowances were $188 million, or 16 basis points of loans, remaining below the historical cycle average. Next slide. Second quarter on-quarter performance. Compared to the previous quarter, net profit was up 5%. Group net interest income rose 2% as balance sheet growth more than offset a 2 basis point decline in net interest margin. Fee income eased 1% from the previous record quarter. Commercial book other non-interest income grew 13%, or $79 million, from a higher treasury customer sales. Markets trading income increased 21%, or $80 million, driven by equity derivatives. Expenses rose 2%, or $49 million, led by higher staff and revenue related costs. Total allowances declined 41%, or $77 million, as general allowances were written back.

The general allowance write-back this quarter was mainly due to the repayment of nearly $1 billion in weaker credit exposures, as well as a shift away from higher risk consumer segments. Half year performance. For the first half, net profit rose 5% to a new high of $6.01 billion. Total income grew 3% to a record $12.0 billion. Group net interest income declined 3% to $7.08 billion as hedging and balance sheet growth cushioned the impact of lower interest rates. Fee income rose 20%, or $500 million to $2.94 billion, led by record wealth management fees. Transaction services fees also reached a new high. Commercial book, other non-interest income grew 20%, or $213 million to $1.28 billion, driven by higher treasury customer sales to both wealth management and corporate customers. Customers trading income increased 10%, or $77 million to $858 million.

Expenses rose 4%, or $165 million to $4.65 billion, led by higher staff cost. Profit before allowances grew 3% to a record $7.39 billion. Total allowances fell 34%, or $155 million, mainly due to the prudent general allowance overlay built a year ago. Specific allowances remain below the true cycle averages. Next slide, net interest income. Compared to the previous quarter, group net interest income rose 2% to $3.58 billion. Group net interest income declined 2 basis points to 1.87% as interest rates were broadly stable during the quarter. The impact was more than offset by balance sheet growth. Compared to the previous year, group net interest income was 2%, or $67 million lower. The average interest rates at the bottom of the slide highlight the extent of the rate decline over the past year.

In particular, Singapore interest rates represented by SORA fell about 100 basis points year-on-year, almost halving from a year ago. Our proactive hedging strategy, as well as strong deposit and loan growth, helped mitigate a significant part of the rate headwinds. Our markets trading business also benefited from lower funding costs. Deposits. During the quarter, total deposits grew 1% or $7 billion in constant currency terms to SGD 638 billion. CASA inflows rose SGD 5 billion, led by retail inflows, while fixed deposits increased SGD 4 billion from institutional banking customers. These flows were partly offset by a SGD 2 billion decline in foreign currency CASA as customers deployed more funds into investments. For the first half, deposits rose 4% or SGD 26 billion, with growth across both CASA and fixed deposits. Liquidity remained healthy.

The group's liquidity coverage ratio was 142% and net stable funding ratio was 113%, both comfortably above regulatory requirements. Loans. During the quarter, gross loans reached $475 billion as growth accelerated to 3% or $15 billion in constant currency terms. The increase was led by non-trade corporate loans as underlying demand remained healthy and was supplemented by higher deal activity. For the first half, gross loans grew 5% or $24 billion, led by non-trade corporate lending. Fee income. Gross fee income for the second quarter rose 22% from a year ago to $1.70 billion. The growth was led by wealth management fees, which increased 42% to a record from higher customer investment activity and growth in AUM. Transaction service fees and investment banking fees were also higher. Compared to the previous quarter's record, gross fee income was little changed.

For the first half, gross fee income rose 18% to a record $3.41 billion, led by new highs in wealth management and transaction service fees. Investment banking and card fees also increased. Customer driven non-interest income. Customer driven non-interest income comprises fee income and treasury customer sales, which are reported as separate P&L lines due to accounting treatment, but are both driven by customer demand for financial solutions and should be viewed together. For the second quarter, customer driven non-interest income rose 27% from a year ago to $2.14 billion. The growth was led by wealth management, which drove a 25% in net fee income to $1.46 billion and a 33% rise in treasury customer sales to $678 million. Institutional banking also recorded double-digit growth amid strong demand for financial solutions from financial institutions and institutional investors.

For the first half, customer driven non-interest income rose 20% to $4.21 billion, driven by new highs in both net fee income and treasury customer sales. Overall, the record performance of our customer driven non-interest income reflects the structural growth of our customer franchise in both wealth and institutional clients segments. The wealth segment. The wealth segment, comprising treasures, private client, and private bank, has been a key growth driver. For the second quarter, total income grew 26% year-on-year to a record $1.71 billion, led by a 49% increase in non-interest income amid higher customer investment activity. Wealth AUM reached a record $516 billion, up 17% year-on-year and 5% quarter-on-quarter, while net new money remained robust at $11 billion for the quarter. For the first half, wealth segment total income rose 16% to a record $3.30 billion as non-interest income increased 33%.

Expenses. Expenses were tightly managed with second quarter expenses only rising 3% from a year ago to $2.35 billion. The cost-to-income ratio improved to 39%. Compared to the previous quarter, expenses were up 2%. For the first half, expenses were well managed and rose 4% to $4.65 billion. Next slide, Hong Kong. Hong Kong's first half net profit rose 23% in constant currency terms from a year ago to a record $1.03 billion. Total income increased 14% to a new high of $1.95 billion. Net interest income rose 16% to $1.13 billion, driven by strong deposit growth of 9% and a 15 basis points expansion in net interest margin. Fee income grew 32% to $641 million, led by wealth management. Commercial book/other non-interest income increased 12% or $13 million to $168 million, driven by higher treasury customer sales. Markets trading income declined $15 million to $48 million.

Expenses rose 4% to $641 million, while cost-to-income ratio improved to 33%. Total allowances fell $22 million to $84 million. Non-performing assets. Asset quality remained resilient. Non-performing assets were little changed from the previous quarter at $4.76 billion as new NPA formation remained low and was largely offset by repayments and write-offs. The NPA's ratio was stable at 1.0%. Specific allowances. Second quarter specific allowances amounted to $188 million or 16 basis points of loans, remaining below the historical cycle average. For the first half, specific allowances were $345 million, or 15 basis points of loans. General allowances. General allowances of $42 million were written back for the first half due to repayments of weaker credits and lower exposure to higher risk consumer segments.

As of end June, total allowance reserves stood at $6.20 billion, comprising $2.38 billion in specific allowance reserves and $3.81 billion in general allowance reserves. The general provisions overlay was stable at $2.4 billion. Allowance coverage was 130% and 196% after considering collateral. Capital. The reported CET1 ratio declined 0.3 percentage points from the previous quarter to 16.6%. The movement was driven by capital return initiatives and an increase in risk-weighted assets. The pro forma ratio on a fully phased-in basis decreased 2.2 percentage points to 14.6%. The leverage ratio was 5.8%, well above the regulatory minimum of 3%. Dividends. The board declared a total dividend of $0.81 per share for the second quarter, comprising an ordinary dividend of $0.66 and a capital return dividend of $0.15.

Based on yesterday's closing share price and assuming that total dividends are held at $0.81 per quarter, the annualized dividend yield is 4.4%. In summary, we delivered a strong set of results for the first half, with total income and net profit reaching new highs. The results were anchored by continued momentum in wealth management, where fees reached a new high and wealth segment AUM crossed the $0.5 trillion mark. The strong performance reflects our ability to capture structural growth in wealth management and institutional flows, our proactive balance sheet management, as well as robust trading performance. While the macro environment continues to evolve, our strong balance sheet, sound asset quality, prudent allowance reserves, and healthy capital position provide a solid foundation for continued growth and sustainable shareholder returns.

I'll now hand you over to Su Shan.

Thank you, Sok Hui. You heard a lot of records from Sok Hui's presentation. I think what pleased me most was the fact that we had record fees across the franchise, and it wasn't just any particular franchise. It was really a solid quarter across all the franchises, which suggests that our teams are really building new to bank customers, new to product customers, and they're really deepening and strengthening our franchise and our client relationships across the board, across segments, across countries. Whether it was record top line, record bottom line, record fees, the team is firing on all cylinders and building a strong foundation for future growth. We also talked about the wealth AUM. Most of you would have heard Tse Koon's presentation around his vision to get to $1 trillion. And we are really building what we call the wealth continuum and the wealth connectivity.

In 2016, I told my colleagues that I believe in the 4 Ds of wealth management. What were the 4 Ds then? One was digitalization. That's when wealth was beginning to get digital. One was data, that you really have to build good data to get closer to the clients, to give them the right advice and nudges. The other D was actually democratization. We believed in the democratization of wealth very early on already. And also the last D is domestification. That means you don't just do offshore, you do onshore. You have to look after your clients both offshore and onshore. And so that's why we are deeply entrenched in our 6 core markets, and we are deeply entrenched in building the wealth both offshore and onshore as well. And we are also focusing on building the continuum and the connectivity.

Wealth management fees are up 42% year-on-year. That was very pleasing, and the AUM growth was also very decent at 17%. We're seeing consistency there, and the teams are working very hard to continue to grow that. Even IBG. IBG, our corporate bank, saw double-digit growth in non-interest income. And that also speaks to the strength of the franchise. We had very good non-trade loans in Q2 as well. Some of it is timing. You can't synchronize perfectly, so sometimes people repay, sometimes they don't repay. They might repay more in a quarter. They might repay less in a quarter. We had some good repayments in Q2 too, from Hong Kong. Some of the weaker real estate credits, they actually sold and then they repaid, so that was actually quite good.

There might be some repayments in Q3, to be honest, but we had some big deals that were put through in Q2, driven by M&A, driven by real estate, driven by energy and renewables, driven by TMT. Quite a solid growth in IBG franchise income. Also the first half transaction service fee was at a record, and that's up 10% year on year, which suggests that the work we've done around digitalization of our corporate clients' servicing journey, payments journey, the snowballing effect of a high velocity of churn is coming through, right? The high velocity of transactions is coming through. Also quite pleasing, I thought the first half, we don't actually talk about this at all, so this is the first time, but institutional equity sales. We're seeing good growth in institutional equities.

We're seeing good growth in equity structured products across the franchise, and that tells us something. It tells us that Asia, the Asian capital markets, has structural growth. It really does. Wealth management, institutional asset management, is really growing at a strong pace. That's a structural tailwind I want to talk about in my next slide. Therefore, markets, our GFM team had the highest markets trading income in the first half. We'll see if that continues, but obviously, with the volatility will come opportunities as well. With the volatility, frankly, in the first half, our corporate treasury has been able to take those opportunities and hedge our balance sheet and be a lot more nimble, and that's also been to our advantage. We will continue to do that when we see these volatilities going forward.

Also quite pleasing is I felt that our teams really were pioneering a few firsts in the first half. We were the first Singapore-headquartered bank to complete our synthetic securitization, the SRT transaction. That opens the door for us to recycle our capital and recycle our assets. We're the first to tokenize physical gold, and that's seeing quite a lot of interest both in retail and institutional clients and sovereign wealth funds. We were the first Singapore bank to be appointed RMB clearing bank. Again, we are seeing strong growth in RMB as a use for trade settlements and transactions. Next slide. I want to unpeel some of the structural growth engines that we're seeing in our markets. The first, as I said, is wealth management. There's been a lot of figures being thrown around on how private wealth in Asia is projected.

People like BCG are saying $99 trillion by 2029, et cetera. You're seeing very big high numbers being bandied, but the truth is, there is wealth creation, right? Taiwan, with the GDP growth at 13-over %, with the TMT sector and the hardware sector growing, you are seeing real structural growth there. We've been laying the foundation to build a strong wealth franchise. We are also seeing very good structural growth across the board. But also in particular, I want to talk about 2 countries where I think it's interesting, and that's Taiwan and India. Taiwan I talked about. It's TMT led. It's the whole Nvidia infrastructure. It's the supply chain across the semiconductor and data center ecosystem. It's also affected the stock market. Taiwan stock market's now over $5 trillion. That's #5 in the world. It's really grown.

If you look at the top 6 markets in the world, actually, quite a few of them are in our backyard. Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, India, et cetera. Very good potential for us to keep growing on that. The second is India. India, in spite of some of the short-term cyclical setbacks, actually still very strong middle income, middle class growth, still strong GDP growth at 7.8%. I'm actually constructive on India being able to pivot to a manufacturing sector, the Make in India, the PLI, which is production-linked incentives. I think that's working. I see opportunities there. I see opportunities in renewable growth and in AI infrastructure growth. Even in wealth, the FCNR window reopened, as you saw earlier this year. It reopened, I think, last month. We are seeing quite good flows as well.

India and Taiwan, I wanted to surface as structural growth opportunities in our core markets. Whilst, of course, Hong Kong and Singapore continue to be the 2 key big financial hubs that we operate out of. Capital markets, as I said, 5 out of 6 world's largest equity markets are in Asia. Trading volume in Asia has gone up a lot. You also have potentially the 23-hour for U.S. now opening in Asian time as well. We'll see a lot of volume and capital flows. What we want to do is have the full suite of offering, and as we entrench our wealth continuum, the new opportunity is not just the B2C wealth opportunity, it's also the B2B wealth opportunity, as more and more players want to come in and do more. We are actually ready to service them from an institutional perspective.

That's also covered by our FIG II team. It's also B2B as well as B2C. In IBG, there are a few good structural growth. I talked about TMT and FIG. There's also trade. Whilst trade outside the U.S., and DBS coined a term, TOTUS, on the second of April, when Liberation Day happened. We measured this. TOTUS, which is trade outside the U.S., has gone from 89% last April to 92%. What does that suggest? That suggests that trade outside the U.S. is growing, and particularly trade in the Asian, intra-Asian regional trade is growing. If you look at China, India, for example, China exports to India has grown from $67 billion to $136 billion. That's in the last 5 years, and that's a doubling Taiwan also to India has grown by 3, 3.5x.

So you see some structural growth trends in some of these trade corridors. That's our game to win. That's really playing in our backyard. In trade, we've been facilitating both what [indiscernible] calls the intentional supply chain moves, where people have to diversify their upstream supply chains, but also facilitating inventory financing, receivable financing, especially in the high growth TMT sector right now. Payments, whether it's programmable tokenized deposits, whether it's just fiat, et cetera, that's also growing, and it's more and more demand for digital solutions. Our FIC franchise spans across 15 countries, deep markets. We're seeing a lot of opportunities here to grow both our sovereign wealth fund coverage, our banks, insurance, fintechs, et cetera. AI and tokenization. To AI, what we need to do is to really harness AI smartly.

What we've done as a bank is we've built on the strong foundation that we've had in the past and continue to leverage what we have. What are our moats? Our moats are customer data, customer trust, and the culture of innovation. Here what we're doing is we have a project to make sure that we have both structured and unstructured data in a complete end-to-end ownership, accountability, usable platform, safe platform. Here we're also coming up with personal agents, team agents, and enterprise agents to help both our own staff and our customers to do better. An end-to-end AI infrastructure and ecosystem, end-to-end data ownership and accountability and clarity and security. Also starting from every single employee being retrained, trained, reskilled, upskilled. All that's very hard work, but I think we're working on a foundation of already a very innovation-led team.

Just moving forward and staying ahead and being humble and hungry and learning. AI and tech is a big differentiator. We want to continue to harness that. Slide. What is our 2026 outlook? As I said, we were coming on terra firma. We built a firm foundation, whether it's a fortress balance sheet, whether it's sound asset quality, whether it's healthy reserves, good data, strong people leadership, and also resilient technology and operations. We're looking to do better, hopefully. Our total income should exceed last year's figures, in spite of rates having gone down by as much as it has, especially in Singapore. Singapore rates have gone down a lot. We expect rates to remain at current levels, that means we're not expecting a rate hike this year. The market has been expecting a rate hike, and we will trade when we see those opportunities.

As a bank, we're not expecting any rate hikes, and we're expecting SORA to stay. U.S., sorry. Yes, we're not expecting any U.S. rate hikes this year as a bank, but we will trade around what the market expects. SORA, we expect SORA to stay around the 1.2 or so for the average of the rest of the year. For the first half group, NI was down 3%, but we think we can narrow the gap for the full year as rates bottom out. Deposit growth should be in the high single digit. We had a very good first quarter, as you know. Second quarter was a bit slower because actually people were redeploying their deposits to invest. We will hope to crank it up as well in the second half. Growth, loan growth, we'll see.

Far the structural growth trends are there in some of the industries that we work in, we should be able to see some healthy loan growth as well. We'll continue to capture whatever volatility the market gives us to hedge our book. We raised our commercial book non-interest income growth to mid-teens because wealth management is really firing on all cylinders, and we hope to continue. The markets will go up and down. When the markets go down, it will slow down. When the markets go up, it will pick up. The key is you need to have a diversified client base. You need to have a continued growth client base. You need to continue to grow your net new money, and you need to have the continuum and the connectivity. That's key.

You take the ups and downs when the market goes up or down. Also important to maintain our cost discipline. We want to keep our cost-to-income ratio in the low 40s. So far, we've been around 39, 40. We want to keep that discipline. Again, keeping our strong asset quality, sound asset quality discipline. Assume SP within the range that we have guided of 17 to 20 basis points. We have a lot of GP buffer at $2.4 billion, as Sok Hui talked about.

That's all for my CEO presentation.

We're happy to take questions now.

[Operator Instructions]

First question, please. Rthvika?

Hi. I'm Rthvika Suvarna. I'm with Bloomberg News. I have a couple questions for the CEO today. Some of them are AI focused. DBS put their AI economic value target for 2026, if you could share? I know that you were aiming towards around $1 billion, saying last year. I think you've said in public too that it would be harder to isolate that number as AI embeds into workflows. I'm curious to know what your outlook is for this year.

It is hard to measure with both, because you have deterministic classic AI, as I call it, which is the AI ML models which is where we've come up with that $1 billion. That should continue to grow, and it is growing. You have the generative AI which really saves productivity time. You have the agentic AI, which is when the AI starts to actually help with transactions as well. On the generative side, what it does is it helps productivity and it helps save time, effort, which in the end saves you money. The time and effort that you save, you can redeploy into growth, right? There's some element of double counting there if you want to count, so it's quite hard to count. We've decided, at least for generative AI, the mile wide, inch deep stuff. Everyone can benefit from that. If everyone can do more in shorter space of time, great. We're asking people, use that time that you save to do more, to learn more, to go up the curve, to go to a higher order job.

We believe that humans can be enhanced by great AI to become super humans, right? To measure that is quite hard because everyone will react differently. Everyone will increase productivity differently. Depends on attitude, aptitude, business cycles, et cetera. It's quite hard to isolate. We're going to try, but I can't give you a figure because it's really hard. You have that generative productivity saves, efficiency saves, but also better quality output part. You have the agentic part, which is very new, right? The agentic part, as I said, we have personal agents, we have team agents, we have enterprise agents. In the enterprise agent side, we have actually 12 big journeys that we're focusing on, and we're going to try and start measuring those 12 big journeys. We've just started the journeys, so you need to give us time.

The baseline of the classic AI, we're going to have to beat last year, of course. There's the additional 2 layers where we're going to try and figure it out. It's going to be very hard to give you a figure, but you will probably see it in our fee income line. You're already seeing it in our fee income line. You'll probably see it in our cost income ratio. You're already seeing it in our cost income ratio, right? You'll see it in our productivity, and you're already seeing it in our productivity.

Roles will change, right? A level 1 production engineer can become level 2 with AI tools. They should do more. A level 2 can become level 3. They will do more, right? You will see, I don't need to grow my tech headcount, but already we're doing more in tech, right? The same in ops, the same with RMs, the same with servicing, the same with product managers, et cetera, et cetera. All that takes time, but it will accrue. We'll finally find a way to do this. I hope that it will be demonstrated in the top line and bottom line and the cost income ratio.

Speaking of wealth fees, they're clearly soaring and you are hiring at least 600 RMs to chase the $1 trillion target that you have. Is AI lifting revenue per relationship manager yet, or is wealth growth still fundamentally headcount led?

I will start and then I was going to ask Tse Koon to chime in. We certainly see AI already helping both our RMs, our investment counselors, our assistant RMs, and also our customers. When you log into our app, there are nudges to tell you, "Hey, do this, do that. Have you seen this? Have you seen that?" That helps the customer self-serve. An RM when they come in, and you can ask our. When we hire new RMs, they come in and go, "Wow, the DBS RM is so lucky. They've got everything pulled together in their workbench for them." Whether it's what's missing, corporate action, things to do, suggestions to make, portfolio rejigging. We want to be able to use these AI tools, and we are, to give holistic, relevant, impactful advice to our customers, right? We can serve it digitally or physically.

Also it helps the ARMs. A lot of servicing, right? Wealth is a lot of niggly servicing to do. By using AI, we can take away a lot of this grunt work for our assistant RM so that they can do more value added stuff like talk to clients, et cetera. Tse Koon, you want to chime in?

Yes. Just to build on what Su Shan has said, which is essentially, I would say, a pretty good summary, that in the past, we'll see a lot of talk about, oh, hiring RMs to grow wealth. That is still necessary, in all fairness, because the wealth business ultimately still builds on relationship and trust, which is what we believe in. Having said that, we do believe that it is no longer just about adding people. It's about adding people while making each and every one even much more effective. That is to be able to get every one of our investment counselors, our RMs, to be a lot more enabled so they can do things much better, much quicker. Over and above that, we're using AI across the entire end-to-end -- the end-to-end wealth proposition, for lack of a better word. How we onboard, how we advise, how we help them to execute, and then how we service. AI is going to be embedded in the entire end-to-end journey. This in and of itself, in DBS, we have gone way beyond just throwing bodies. It's about making the bodies even more able.

I have a couple more, sorry. With all these risks coming out of Anthropic and OpenAI's hacking capabilities and all of those controversies that we've been reading about in the news, has that changed your usage of U.S. LLMs in the last few months, maybe? Has it changed your outlook in terms of accessing these tools?

We use all tools, right?

Which tools, if you could specify?

We use all tools.

U.S., Chinese, everything?

All tools.

Okay.

We use all tools. We are also cognizant of geopolitics. We're cognizant of cybersecurity risks. We're cognizant of over-reliance on anyone. The basic is you must have cyber hygiene. The second basic is you must rely on no one. You don't have concentration risks, right? You layer and you work with whoever is best in class in whatever it is that they do. You get to know everyone. We travel east, we travel west, we meet everyone, we use everyone. We do proof of concepts with different people, different providers. We remain open-minded, we are guarded. We are very cybersecurity conscious. We also guard our data and our tech stack, with a lot of protections because that's sacrosanct to the customer trust. The truth is, we're open-minded and we work with everyone.

Can I just pivot a little here and know a little bit more about some details on your Singapore outlook, given the renewed war in Iraq -- in Iran, sorry. If you're expecting any slowdown in income growth in the second half this year.

Singapore GDP growth has surprised on the upside, and that's because Singapore actually has quite a lot of the semiconductor higher end ecosystem here. Do I expect that to continue to grow? Yes. Do I expect the financial services to continue to grow also? That's another big part of the economy. Yes. The capital markets, both Hong Kong and Singapore capital markets have grown, right? If they both grow, that's good for us. We're in both, as you know. I expect to see continued structural tailwinds for Singapore. I think inflation could continue to be an issue that could be mitigated by a stronger Sing dollar. The war on Iran will lead to volatility in things like interest rates and oil, the price of oil. Those 2 will be the variables that we can't predict, right?

I think we have a workforce that is preparing to be a lot more AI-ready than others. I think the government has set the tone on let's reskill and restructure and do all the right things and just face the music, and I think that's the right narrative. Don't sugarcoat it. Just look at what's ahead and let's try and restructure our workforce sooner rather than later. I think the narrative coming out is the right one. I think we're making the investments in growth. We want to grow global champions. We want to grow our tech ecosystem. We want to grow our data ecosystem. We want to grow our AI ecosystem. I think all the top-down moves are right. I think we have also some good structural tailwinds in trade.

I do think that the north and south trade will continue to grow, and Singapore, as a trade hub, will stand to benefit from that as well.

Anyone else? Maybe Toby.

I'm [ Toby Siu ] from [Foreign language]. I have one questions. I saw that the M&A activities in banking sector is quite active or hot. Can you share whether DBS plan to conduct any M&A in the mid to short term to enhance or optimize your assets?

Well, we look at whatever fits our 3 criteria. Our 3 criteria has always been very consistent. It must fit in with our overall strategy, it must be something we know how to integrate and operate, and the price must be right. If the 3 things fit, we will look at it.

Sheila, you had a question?

I'm Sheila from The Straits Times. I have a question for Su Shan. DBS share price keeps going up, hitting a new high today. Do you think the valuation is too high given that you had sold at $60 earlier in the year?

I'm not a stock analyst. I don't cover DBS stock. Well, I'm just joking. I think it depends on the whole banking sector in Singapore has moved up. I think it speaks to, number one, I think the potential reallocation of investments. People have been trading the AI stocks in the first half, now they may be starting to diversify. I think Singapore dollar also has an element to play in that investors may be looking for some Singapore dollar diversification. I think if you are a company with both dividends, dividend yield, and structural growth, hopefully, people will see that maybe you deserve some kind of premium. I don't talk about the stock as much. I will talk about the business. That's my job. You can talk to the stock analyst maybe.

What I do want to say is, obviously, the team and I were steering DBS to really be on very strong foundation, we will continue to grow businesses that will give us good returns, that are good for our customers. Luckily, our backyard, the high ROE businesses are growing, whether it's wealth management, it's FIG, it's TMT, it's payments, it's transaction banking, it's renewables. All those high growth businesses do give us very good ROE. That's good. If you can use AI smartly to grow faster and better and to protect yourself, that's also good. You can grow without increasing your cost too much. If you can display consistent growth and you can take the ups with the downs, because the markets will go up, the markets will go down.

I hope that DBS will be the kind of company that when the chips are down, we will outperform, we will have a lower beta and a higher alpha. When the chips are up and things are doing well, that we should outperform. That's our hope of my team and I in the long term. Short term, I can't predict stock price, sorry.

[ Gula ]?

Sorry. Whoops. Could I just ask a couple of questions? One is, could you speak to your record treasury customer sales? They're up 30% year-on-year, and they've been going up consistently. I think I remember in the old days, [ Bueche ] would say it's about $250 million a quarter, but now it's almost $700 million in one quarter. What drove that? Secondly, could you also give us an idea of your dividend growth? The reason why DBS is so attractive is because it announces absolute dividends versus a dividend payout ratio. Of course, it goes into your Gordon growth model. The dividend growth, which is how you get your share price. Maybe Su Shan would like to look at that a bit more closely as to what the price target could be. Just those 2 questions.

Okay. Thanks, Gula. I'll take the first one, and Sok Hui will take the second one. On your question on treasury sales, you're right. That's something the team and I have been working very hard on. In a way, it demonstrates that AI is working. We do use AI both for idea generation and for nudging our customers, and also for looking at opportunities. That helps us generate that transaction fee flow, if you will. Number 2, it's both new to bank customers and new to products. You have to keep widening your funnel to get new clients. Correct? You can grow your fee income. As you widen your funnel and you get new clients, your client comes in with one product, they can also do a second or a third or a fourth. You can start with a generic loan product.

You go with an interest rate swap, a currency swap, an M&A, a syndicated loan, a project finance, blah, blah. For corporate banking, for SMEs, when they do cross-border currency, we launched something called GlobeSend to counter the fintechs on cross-border payments in a very easy way. There's a lot of transaction fees, loan fees, structured fees that you can generate in IBG, SME. In wealth, as I said, it's new to bank, it's new to product, it's AI enabled, it's self-service, all the way to highly structured stuff. Across the whole continuum for wealth, it seems to be working. I think it's AI, human, and customer all working together to generate this. There will be some cyclicality, Gula, because the markets are up, you can do a lot more. When the markets are down, you can't do as much.

There will be cyclicality in those numbers. The key is you must keep growing your funnel and you must keep growing your AI prowess and your ability to nudge customers when they need to be nudged.

Gula, to your question, you're right. I think the function of our price to book reflects to some extent the high ROE that we have. I think the ability to pay dividends is also a function of the growth in NPAM versus the growth in our risk-weighted assets. These are what you have to balance, the growth in the business versus what you want to pay out. I think Su Shan mentioned that we have done a securitization transaction that's also helping to recycle our assets as well as recycle the capital. We will continue to look at NPAM growth primarily, and that will determine our dividend growth.

You don't have a percentage, do you?

Depends on MPEM growth. MPEM growth is a function of, I guess, market factors as well.

Yes. Okay. Do you have an internal cost of equity that you look at or not?

We look at what the analyst also puts into their cost of equity. It's a number that's not observed, but we know that from the analyst estimates, it's probably in the region of 8% to 9%.

What could drive that lower? Do you know?

I think as long as we continue to run our businesses well, I think we do get credit for being able to protect the downside, being proactive in the way we manage risk. I think all these are the factors that will help in driving the cost of equity lower.

Russell, The Asian Banker.

Hi. Russell from The Asian Banker. My question is for Su Shan. With fee income and treasury sales, of course, being increasingly important contributors to earnings. With the advances of AI technology, it's getting harder to stay ahead of the curve, especially when it comes to other banks coming to the picture of AI. Do you still see the synergies of technology and people? Do you see that as being resilient enough over time to override maybe the cyclical conditions of the market? Or do you anticipate potentially having to build more revenue streams to counter that?

Tech in itself is never a differentiator, right? Tech is widely available to everyone. What are differentiators and what are our moats? Our moats are, number 1, it's our culture of innovation. That is not born overnight, right? That we've built over the last decade or so, right? We started our digital journey in 2013. Our data journey in 2016. We're quite mature in doing all that. Number 2 is your data. Your data is another differentiator, and we've spent a lot of time, effort, and money to really create our data lake, to create AI ML models. All that takes years, right? In the way we work, we call it Managing Through Journeys, which is a horizontal way of working. We know every single customer journey end to end.

We know the data that flows through, the systems that it flows through, the operations that it flows through. When you layer AI, in what part of the operations can you automate? It's not just automating, it's also using AI end-to-end to generate ideas, to open accounts, to help with transactions, and to help with ideation. It's a whole end-to-end thing. It's not trivial, but you've got to get your basics right around technology, around your tech stack, right? Around realizing, okay, what do you want to have as sovereign and what may not be sovereign, right? What will you buy? What will you build, right? What's important to you? Whether you have sovereign codes, sovereign models, sovereign harness even, right? All that is here to play. We want to be very well-placed in being ahead of the curve, right?

Being ahead of the curve means you have a culture of innovation. You have a culture where you're not scared to fail. We're trying new things all the time, right? Heck, most people are building agents in DBS. We've got so many agents now. Everyone has their own personal agent, I call it, let a thousand flowers bloom in a walled garden called DBS-GPT, right? When we first launched DBS-GPT, it wasn't very good. Today it's very good, right? The tech helps, being able to get our data right, to be able to get our journey right, to get our end-to-end ownership of the data, the journey, the customer, everything right, is very important. It's not trivial, right? We are lucky that, as I said, we have this culture of innovation.

Even our young people, our young analysts, our young associates, they are the ones coming to me with all these great ideas. Today, a young junior analyst or an associate armed with AI can be fast-tracked. As I just said, you can superhuman a young person too, it's all down to attitude. We want to hire for attitude, and I'm glad to say a lot of people in DBS already have that innovation bent. They also have a culture of resiliency around tech, right? We know what we cannot mess with, that's anything to do with production systems. We have guardrails around that. That's why the AI harness. The AI harness will have guardrails. It'll be grounded in governance, grounded in guardrails, grounded in controls and policies, and grounded in good customer data, right? All that is important. All that is not trivial.

It takes years to build. I think we're ahead in that sense, we're not at all complacent because there's so much to come. We're ahead, we are able to be nimble, and we can change the way we work because we've already MTJ our customer journeys. We've already made our customer journeys horizontal. We are used to working in horizontals, not vertical silos. Can we do better? Of course we can, we will use AI to do better. If you ask me, will other banks catch up? Of course, other banks will catch up. Will we keep staying ahead? Yes, I want us to stay ahead, right? Those moats take years to build.

We have time maybe for one last question. Okay. [ Vivian ].

Congratulations on your results. My question is on China's new offshore trust tax rules. With wealth management a key growth driver for DBS, do you expect any impact on the bank? If you've seen any change in client behavior among Greater China private banking clients, or do you see any opportunities for the bank?

You remember what I said about the 4 Ds of wealth management, and one of the Ds is domestication. I think the trend is coming, and we're ready for it, which means that you need to provide strong domestic wealth management solutions for clients, whether it's in China, India, Indonesia, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong also. Being there domestically is a key driver for us. Tse Koon already mentioned he's building all these wealth centers. How many? 18?

18.

All our wealth centers are spread across our high-growth areas, including China, including Indonesia, including Taiwan, et cetera. The regulations that are coming out, there are 3. Well, there's 2 that are official. One is the 837 directive around the outbound trusts, and one is the Announcement 21. Sorry, one is the 837 directive around outbound investments, not in trusts, which I think has affected some of the fintechs, the online brokerages more. One is the Announcement 21, which is about the offshore trusts. The third one that was in the news today, we haven't seen any official announcement, so we have to wait to see whether there's any official announcement that's coming out. There is nothing conclusive yet. Okay? My short answer is we play by the rules. We are a regulated bank.

We have Common Reporting standards, we have declarations when you have declarations. In a way, this evens out the playing field. In the past, I think some fintechs and all that, they do things faster, better, because maybe they were not quite as regulated as banks were. Today, that evens out the playing field. Not a bad thing in the long term. As I said, we're not going to circumvent any of the regulatory hurdles. We will play by the rules, and we are already onshore. We will continue to grow onshore. If money stays onshore, we're quite happy, frankly, because we want to build that.

Just to follow up. Chanyaporn Chanjaroen from Bloomberg. When you talk about domestication in response to China flows, are you saying that....

No, I was saying that as a broad wealth management trend. I've been saying that since 2016, so for 10 years.

I see.

Yes.

It's in general.

In general.

Not specifically to the China flows?

No, because when we were building the wealth business, we were looking at, well, we have to build digital offering. We got to be data-driven. We got to understand that wealth, there is always a home country bias, right? Whether you're from Thailand, or from Singapore, or from China, or from India, a lot of your wealth generation will be from your own country. There's always a home country bias. If you really want to provide wealth solution, you must be in their home country to understand them better.

Booking is in Singapore or Hong Kong?

We book everywhere. But our onshore wealth is booked in China. Yes. Of course. Yes.

Okay, thank you everyone. I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today's briefing. So we'll wrap it up here. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the first quarter '26 DBS analyst briefing. As usual, you've heard the media briefing, so we've gone through the decks. We can go straight to Q&A.

So first question from Jayden from Macquarie.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

Okay. Great. I just had 3 points I wanted to ask on. The first is just to clarify on the general allowances. So I think you made it pretty clear during the media briefing that it's unclear if we could have write-backs now. But we've sort of said that the JP allowance is appropriate for the current sort of situation. Just wanted to know, did you change any of the macro assumptions that go into the MAVs, like the view on growth, inflation, any potential impacts on the economies and where you operate? Obviously, I realize that there's a lot of judgment that goes into that. We'll be interested for your thoughts, if I could start there.

Well, I can take the sort of the way we think about this part and then maybe -- so can go through the MAV and actual numbers. And we've done this quite a few times, right, from COVID to Ukraine to now Iran. We stress test for oil at 120 going all the way up to 200. We stress test for some of the markets that we work in, currencies depreciating by 20%, 30%. And we stress test for demand destruction as well. Or we stress test also for inflation on the cost of goods, be it fuel oil or chemicals or fertilizers, et cetera.

So all that stress test goes into all our mornings and then we identify companies that are at risk, and then we put them into the watch list depending on how far -- how bad they look. So that's the rigor and discipline that we do it, do it both top down and bottom up.

And as I said, when we did that again for this war for Iran, the numbers were actually pretty okay. We realize we have more than sufficient buffer, ample coverage for the worst-case scenarios that we factored and stress tested. So that's why we don't feel that we need to do any more. You want to...

Yes. So Jayden, I think I would say that we can put in the sort of macroeconomic variables, we can make assumptions. But I think the more important point is the transmission mechanism, which is much harder to get right. On how sort of these oil prices, how the transmission will work, whether there's a lag effect. So I think we do the best with the models that we have, but we want to be prudent. And while our stress testing numbers are coming in lower than the stack of general provisions that we have, we want to be watchful and see how it will pan out in the subsequent quarters before we talk about GP release.

Yes. That's very helpful. I realize that there's a fair amount of uncertainty, but I think the bottom-up process is very helpful.

Yes. And Jayden, we talk to all the big clients, right? So obviously, you talked to airlines, you talk to oil and gas players. You talk to fertiliser players, food and agri players. We talk to everyone and find out, hey, when are you going to run up inventory? Hey, how much are you pricing up? Hey, have you got force majeure on this? Are you allowed to have force majeure on this based on your documentation and all that? Once it's FOB technically the seller -- only the seller can -- the seller sold it, right? The buyer can't do FM on -- once the goods are FOB.

But the truth is, it's very nuanced and it's very bottom up, because you might have someone that just declared force majeure. And then, guess what, they jack up their prices so much. Actually, they have record profits, right? Or you might have someone who says, "Oh my God, I can't hedge my -- I'm not spot short forward, but I can't get my spot out of the Strait of Hormuz." So you think, okay, discount that. But then suddenly, they make tons of money in their trading room, right? So it's very single client dependent. You have to talk to everyone. You've got to get input from everyone and you have to stress test for all the very large gaps. And that's what we're doing.

Talking to the big clients and getting input on the industry is crucial and that's what we're doing.

That's really helpful. And then speaking of hedging, you've obviously done a good job in the first quarter and obviously maintain the fixed and the hedging portfolio at similar levels. I remember in prior quarters, you said that it'd be about a 50 basis points gap. If you were to roll those off and then move to floating. Any sort of updated thoughts on where that is now and what you've been able to achieve? Because you sound a lot more sort of confident on the net interest income side.

I can kick off and I'll Phil to amplify. So yes, we are a little bit more confident now because the market volatility has given us opportunities to do this better. When I last spoke to you, we said we'll probably have to renew our hedges at 50 bps below. It's now looking like 40 bps below the last price. So we're better now. Phil?

Yes. I mean, Su Shan's basically summarized it quite well. We had a good first quarter. We basically managed to over replace the maturities. So there isn't as much left for the rest of the year. It's about $60 billion for the rest of the year. But we're maintaining the duration of that portfolio at fairly healthy levels.

Okay. That's really helpful. And then maybe just a final question I wanted to ask, the wealth activity looks really strong in terms of the fee momentum in the first quarter. Any sort of views on how it's panned out for April, as client activity remained robust? What are your sort of thoughts what you're seeing now?

So Tse Koon here. On the wealth numbers, it's generally made up of both investments as well as insurance, right? And so in April, as we know, the market has gotten to be a lot more volatile. So therefore, we did see some volatility in the first 2 weeks of April. But then from third week onwards, we started to see again good momentum coming back. So I think over this period, again, it's anybody's call. But suffice to say, we've got a strong foundation of customers. We've got customers that have got dry powder. And therefore, it's 1 of those things as we take a portfolio approach to advise our customers. We do think that we still stand in a good position. The rest is really the market which is anybody's guess.

Having said that, we do also have a very robust bank assurance pipeline, and we've seen the momentum very strong in Q1. So we do have a very diversified, I would say, stream of revenue in this space.

Next question from Melissa from Goldman's.

I think you might go back on some of the points you just made just a bit quickly. In terms of the hedging, you mentioned that you have done most of it, but you have $60 billion to go for the year. Wasn't it at the last quarter, you mentioned that only the roll off or the ones that roll off this year was only $80 billion. So -- why -- so have you done all and then you're doing more? Or what's going on there?

Also just in terms of just getting around, again, like you mentioned that now your SORA assumption is much lower, but you are expecting more impact. So how have you managed it? Because in terms of the SORA sensitivity, you are now seeing it's $11 million. But before the last quarter, I know it's very small, you were saying only $10 million. So just wanted to understand that a little bit better? That's the first question, and I'll just hop on to the next 1 after you answered that.

Yes, sure, Melissa. So I said we over replaced in the first quarter. I didn't say we've done most of the book. So we over replaced what matured, and we have about $60 billion left to do with the rest of the year. So we'll look for spikes and we look for opportunities to replace that, and as much as...

I think that's the time -- I think it was a misunderstanding because yes, we over replaced -- actually what happens is the book this $80 billion that matures this year, and it's over the fourth course of the year. So for first quarter, we did a little more than...

Sorry, my typing is coming through on the phone.

Sorry, sorry.

Yes, that's right. So I think Su Shan summarized it pretty well there. So that's a piece.

On the SORA sensitivity, the sing dollar rate sensitivity, essentially as the CASA comes in, the sensitivity goes up. So it's directly correlated with the deposit growth that we've just talked about, and that's really where the sensitivity comes in minus what we're able to hedge. So that's the net number you see, which has gone up about $1 million per basis point over the quarter.

So it's a double -- I mean, it's funny, right? Because we actually want to have more CASA but that makes us more NIM sensitive, but it helps our NII, which is why we keep saying, look at the NII, don't look at the NIM, because we want to have more CASA. We want to have more low-cost CASA, right? It's good for us.

Right. So we are still of the view...

Yes. So Melissa, to your point, maybe in the -- you're asking why is it that SORA has gone down? And how do we manage it? If you think about it, it's the deposit growth, we said we are changing our guidance for deposit growth. We -- last quarter, we are thinking of mid-single digit. Now we are really talking about high single digit. And with more deposits coming in, and remember, we guided that we can make 1, 1.2 percentage points for all the deposits that come in, that has actually -- the additional deposits that are coming in has actually helped to mitigate the effect of the lower SORA. At that point, we can get to fairly resilient numbers despite the down drift in the rates.

So can I just say in terms of when you say resilient numbers and you missed out the guidance that NII slightly done, are we still NII slightly down or NII flattish now?

NII is still slightly down, but it's a big -- I think it's a big deal to be able to say we are still slightly down despite further rate in -- the rate environment that we have seen. And this because we can mitigate it to the sort of deposit that have come in.

Deposits and hedgings.

Right. Okay. Then just lastly, in terms of dividends, given where your new outlook for REITs and your strong returns. Are we still very confident at the end of this year, we can still do the $0.06 up in terms of the DPS?

Well, it's hard to predict what will happen in the end of this year just because we can't predict the geopolitics. So I think we'll need to have a couple more quarters of clarity before we commit to anything. But this is a board-level discussion and we'll definitely keep you posted.

Next question, Yong Hong from Citi.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

I just have 3 questions, 2 on wealth and 1 on NII. So firstly, on wealth, just wondering how much of the net new money was driven by port banking? And any thoughts on the sustainability of this $10 billion? Some color on the net new money prospect by geography will also be helpful. Yes, this is my first question.

Okay. So the $10 billion, 6 was for. The high net worth and 4 was for treasures. The geography was actually very wide. So no single concentration. I think it should. We should be able to hopefully maintain the momentum. Don't want to overpromise, but what do you think, Tse Koon?

Yes. So as we described earlier on, given that our treasurer's franchise is actually pretty much onshore. And therefore, if it's out of tenors from there. So by nature, it is already very well diversified, right? And then the sixth is PBTPC, which is more a global kind of a business. So it's very, very broad-based.

Now as to whether we are able to sustain, I do believe we can, for simple reason that we have talked about it is a macro trend that wealth is continually being generated out here in Asia. We continue to be onboarding new customers. We've got a strong pipeline. And so if anything, I would say these kind of numbers is what we have consistently seen now over the last 4 years, 4, 5 years. So I don't see a reason why this should not continue.

Yong Hong, I think what is pleasing for me is that the 1 bank is working both IPG and wealth connectivity across all the markets is happening. We bank the business, we bank the family. We talk about succession planning. They do the key members, insurance with us, we look after their kids, their grandkids. So it's very sticky and it's also focused on the future, not just this generation, but the next 1 and the next 1. So we're building a sticky franchise.

The wealth AUM is going to be lumpy, right, especially at the high end because you get 1 big client, it goes up, then if the guy needs to send money out somewhere to do something, it goes up. So it goes in and goes out, it's quite lumpy. The key is we must keep having a cadence of new to bank and next generation and then set them -- engage them in lock them down with trust, estate planning and banker, and that's exactly what we're doing.

Okay. Yes. My second question is, what is the proportion of AUM in investment products in the first quarter and where are we in the month of April? So I'm just wondering what is keeping you from upgrading your commercial noninterest income guidance for the year?

Okay. So 58% of the AUM is in investment products. Your second question was what?

And how does it compare with the month of April? Because you were saying potentially April, we are seeing a little bit less upbeat in terms of equity market sentiments. So just wondering what has been a trend in April for this ratio?

Are you talking about the wealth side or...

the proportion of the AUM in investment products. Basically just some color on the wealth momentum in April.

So okay. So the wealth momentum in April, basically, wealth management is made up of INI, right? So both insurance and investments. The -- on the investment side, in April, first 2 weeks there was as we can see in the market is pretty public, generally quite muted. But the third week, again, it started to bounce back. So it's kind of pretty volatile during this time.

But having said that, within the whole investment arena, we have a broad base of different instruments, right? It's not just about equities but there are also various structures involved in there. At the same time, we have a very broad range of funds, both public and private, which customers continue to gain exposure in. So it's very, very broad-based.

On the insurance front, the momentum has been exceptionally strong, and that has continued into April.

Okay. Got it. And so would you say that your wealth -- or your clients in the wealth segments, they are still basically putting their money into use and basically deploying the deposits into investments? So basically, no slowdown in that from what we have been seeing since the first quarter?

Yes. I would say in a broad sense, yes, because the advice that we give to our clients has always been to stay invested. We do not believe in a -- timing the market. So we always tell our clients time in the market is far better than timing the market. And therefore, we take the portfolio approach. And it is in these times that we also would, in some cases, were relevant, help our clients or work with them to rebalance their portfolio. There are opportunities actually in these types for them to build a portfolio.

And I've always said right, Yong Hong, that I think the role of capital as a source of passive or active income is going to rise for young people and for retirees, because the velocity of money in Main Street is going down, but the velocity of money in Wall Street is going up, right? If you want to use an analogy. And therefore, we want to start them young. So Tse Koon is not just building the high net worth, right? We're going down the chain to do digital wealth or digi wealth, our Digi portfolio is doing really well. I mean the AUM has doubled or something like that, right, over the last few months. And we want to promulgate concept of regular savings planned, easy, safe as you earn and easy sort of risk-adjusted portfolio to suit retail wealth life cycle needs for longevity and for retirement and for active income, if you're in the gig economy, right?

So don't just focus on that top end level, look at it holistically. Look at well starting from retail wealth all the way up the wealth continuum especially in some of the key markets like Singapore, Taiwan. And then for other fee recurring fee, look also at GTS, look also at loan fees because we're trying to build the snowballing effect of more flow, more sticky transactions, more operating accounts and more fees. So the loan fees is being hard fought. But one, you can see it's consistently strong, because we're winning key mandates now we're the lead for a lot of the syndicated loan structures that we do because of our industry focus. There GTS, we're winning more and more cash operating mandates, right? We're winning because we are a dependable bank with digital, we know how to tokenize deposits, we are safe. So we are also a diversified bank for many of these MNCs that either to only bank with global banks, but now they want to diversify risk, so they come to us. So we're winning operating mandates as well.

So what we're trying to build is a nice cadence of recurring fee income across the board. So wealth is one, GTS is one, loan fees is one, payment fees is one. So using AI, using smart models, using customer engagement as I try to build that sort of fee engine.

Okay. Got it. Maybe just 1 final question on NII. I think there was some -- you started a little bit more domestic from deposits. Just wondering, given the April bond new trends does that even give you more opportunity to do more hedging and that potentially also is another driver why you started more optimistic on NII?

I guess, in a word, yes. Phil, do you want to just say anymore?

Yes.

You know what, yes, but I don't want to overpromise and under deliver, right? So you know our -- we're using 1% on SORA, and we're expecting no U.S. rate cuts now. And so we're ready for -- if times are bad and the wars turns out to be even worse than we anticipated than it's drags on and we have sacculation, then we are building a fortress balance sheet just to prepare for the worst. So if it's really bad, we're ready for it, right? So if things all go to port, we're ready for it. We've got enough with us. We fight for deposits. We invest in HQLA. We play safe. We take off risk on SMEs and CCUL. So I think, from a risk and a CASA perspective, we're good. Then if the markets pick up, the war ends early, hey, then we can go forth and conquer more fee.

Hopefully, last volatility on the downside and more alpha on the upside.

Let's move on to Aakash from UBS. I think there's quite a few questions in queue, so we could limit you to 2 questions.

Congrats on a pretty solid quarter. If I can just start off the first question with understanding the net interest margin a bit better. So can you break it down? How much was the impact of rates on the net interest margin? So SORA coming down, SOFRA far coming down, HIBOR coming down? And how much was the HQLA deployment impact separately?

So you wanted us to unpack the impact of SORA, HIBOR. We can give you the sensitivity, which I thought we did.

Yes. Su Shan, sorry, not by rate separately. I'm just saying what was the rate's impact? And what was the SQ impact? If I look at the slide where you break down the commercial book and the group NIM. So commercial book was down 5 basis points. Group was down 4%. Is it fair to say that HQLA impact was plus 1 basis points on the NIM? That's the only number that we're going for.

Yes. So Akash, maybe I'll try and give this Phil. Maybe I'll try and give a bit of color there, right? So bear in mind that the average group NIM is in the 180s, right. When we deploy surplus deposits, we typically get 1% to 1.2%, depending on which currency you're talking about. So there's a dilutive impact on NIM. But as we've always said, our guidance is on NII, right? Because NI in dollar terms is what they're targeting. And Su Shan was talking about 17% ROE and so on. Really, the ROE and the NII are what we are focused on. So it's not easy to tear apart exactly how much was created by this particular size of deposits versus that. So I'd encourage you to look at the NII line, and that's for the sensitivities that Su Shan mentioned.

Yes, I totally understand that. I understand it's positive for NII. It's a good business to do. But I'm just thinking from a NIM perspective, because it makes the calculation a bit easier. Out of the 4 basis points, can you say minus 2 the HQLA impact, minus 2 was rates impact? Or any -- like what was that -- because some of the other banks do give us breakdown.

I think maybe we'll come back to you after...

It's quite hard because it depends on how much we get, how much we can do. Okay, we'll come back to you later.

Okay. Good. That would be great. The second question is just on Wealth Management. If you think about your guidance last year, right, it was kind of implying like a $800 million per quarter revenue for Wealth Management. This quarter, we obviously did $900 million plus, which is very strong. But you're still not changing the guidance for the full year. So I'm just trying to understand like what drove this strength in Q1? Was there anything exceptional which you're looking at and saying we shouldn't change the guidance for now? And what would also be very helpful here is if you can break down this $900 million, 5 months? Like how is Jan and Feb? And how was March? I'm guessing March was slower than Jan and Feb. But please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes. So yes, we I think what we are seeing is, as Tse Koon said, right, I mean, banca did very well and banca tends to be countercyclical. Investments tends to be cyclical. So the markets are up, investments are up, markets are down, investments are down. So because that part is hard to predict, we're not raising or changing any of our guidance on wealth. I mean we obviously don't -- we don't hold ourselves to our budget, right? If the markets are good, we do our best. If the markets are bad, we hunker down.

But I think what has been a pleasant surprise is the banca side has been really outstanding. And that's because as I said, right, I think customers are seeing us as a long-term wealth manager of choice for the next generation. And that's why they're coming to us to do these long-term plans. And these long-term plans take time to hatch. They don't happen overnight. It takes months, right? You've got to get the guy in, the wife, the children, they're going to do health checks, you got to discuss estate planning, all very sensitive things. And these take months, if not years, to hatch, but it's hatching now, right? So but that's based on our years of investments in the team, the family office team. Even in the SME team.

So what's pleasing for me on Banca is we're starting to see also my SME teams, my corporate bankers, discussing key man risk with their key main clients, family-owned businesses because they should and they have to as a great solution for our clients. And so that's also pleasing for me.

So I think Tse Koon already gave some guidance on April. So just expect that when markets are down, the fee for investments will be down, and we hope to mitigate that with banca fees, and we hope to mitigate that with new to bank customers.

Yes. And at the same time, as I also guided also mitigate that with actually the approach we have taken to Wealth Management, which is not 1 of just trading in and out, but really taking the opportunity to build a portfolio. So I've also mentioned that it's not just about equities. Just for discussions take we have also onboarded a whole series of funds, including hedge funds. So in some volatile times, actually, the hedge funds can do really, really well. And we have seen customers also starting to put their money to work through hedge funds. So there are -- there is a full suite of solutions that we have to kind of navigate through these volatile times, right? So the first primary impact, of course, overnight, things happen, you might see the market move. But along the way, we have, I do believe what it takes from a strong customer base to a full suite of solutions.

Yes, Aakash, the way you're coming from, I think the words we guided to high single digits for the commercial book, noninterest income. High single digits is a range. So I would say it's gone up a bit. It's not just high single digits, if that satisfies your kind of curiosity or why you did a 900 plus very strong and you're still not changing your guidance.

And just bear in mind, Aakash, because seasonality, you usually can't take 1Q times full.

Sorry, the last question -- that's very helpful color. The last question is just on Hong Kong CRE. And you also mentioned that how property market seems to be bottoming out, recovering residential property prices have been up for like 11 months in a row. Are you starting to expect recoveries from this book? Or are you still expecting NPLs this year?

So I am more constructive from Hong Kong CRE now, but it is very much location-specific. So Central Grade A office properties like the U.S., right? New York, Grade A, Manhattan, Grade A., London, Grade, it's all doing well. The fringes are not less so. So we don't have -- Hong Kong CRE exposures are really just to the top quality blue-chip names, and they're actually seeing a nice recoveries. Some of the CEOs that told me their rentals and Central have gone from HKD 90 to HKD 130 per square foot. So that's real recovery. And you see the big hedges -- hedge bonds and II, and even the big tech companies have come back to Hong Kong Central and taken up floors, right, some taken up building.

So I am constructive. I'm pleased to see you saw that on the West Kowloon side is seeing quite a lot of movement, people taking more space, helped by the strong capital markets in Hong Kong, helped by the growth of Wealth Management in Hong Kong and helped by the strong support that Hong Kong has seen from the Mainland both its capital markets and its investments in new manufacturing and biotech, et cetera, and et cetera. So yes, I'm more constructive on Hong Kong [indiscernible] .

Can this result in any GP write-backs or any overlays that you have earmarked for the Hong Kong portfolio being up?

We'll continue to assess states [indiscernible].

Thanks, Aakash. We move on to Harsh from JPMorgan.

Yes, am I audible?

Yes, yes.

Okay. Great. So just to understand the NII guidance. If Sing-dollar appreciates and your constant currency balances go down. Is that the main risk between flat NII and slightly lower NII year-on-year?

Sing goes up. Normally...

The potency deposits are pretty strong, right?

It's a fairly -- this is Phil here. It's a fairly second order effect, probably low tens of millions. That's just the translation impact of the U.S. dollar and I stack back into the single functional reporting currency that asking, right?

And I'm trying to understand what are the moving parts because it seems like your language has become more positive on NII between fourth quarter and first quarter. So what are the -- I'm guessing 1 is a $60 billion of hedging and second is Sing dollar. Is there anything else which would [indiscernible].

Harsh, that's not -- we might sound more positive, but honestly, it was tough, it Q1, SORA went down how much year-on-year 150 basis points. SORA was down 150 basis points. Remember what I said about our sensitivity, right? It was $11 million per basis point. So it's not easy, right, it's tough. So you see that. So the big try work or NIM is still so, still beats everything else hands down. But the team did a great job in getting more deposit growth. The team did a great job in hedging. -- and the market is buffering more opportunities for hedging because the market is so volatile, right? So from that perspective, because we're seeing the volume growth, we're seeing the hedging opportunities. We're seeing the fee growth in the neobank that's mitigating the massive so headwinds that was upon us, when we look at the markets last year, at the end of last year, the store headwinds were real and they still are real, right? But offers balance sheet, right? And then keep growing, keep your NTBs keep your CASA wrap and keep your focus on all the growth lines that we're doing and all the credit sort of stress testing that we're doing. So we're spending for -- I think we're on tariff and [indiscernible].

All right. If I could just understand that hedging bit -- Su Shan, thanks to that, and it's incredible how well NII is despite all of these sources. So kudos to your team. But what exactly are you heading? I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of it. Because if it is consensus that this is how, let's say, the sing dollar rates are going to be or U.S. or rates are going to be. Like some peek into your secret sauce, what exactly are you doing to get to this outcome?

Okay, Harsh, Phil here again. So we use a variety of hedging strategies. So they'll be funded, unfunded, some deployment to [indiscernible], but also the loan book itself, right, also gives us certain opportunities to put on hedges. And some of those can be single currency, some can be cross currency. So we sometimes we basis swaps. So there's a variety of hedging strategies that we that implied that's probably what I would say on the matter.

There is nothing 1 big thing which we can point to that this works very well because of cross-currency swap spreads went down. So it's nothing like -- it's across the board. So there's nothing that we can monitor is what I'm trying to get to.

We are very opportunistic and in particular periods, we will see opportunities in 1 market run other periods, we will see opportunities in other market. But overall, look at the outcome of the hedging strategy, look at the margin we're able to get after those are the numbers you can kind of look at and get a sense of how we're doing. So mitigate a very, very large SORA of headwind that Su Shan just mentioned.

Perfect. And final question is on capital. Under what conditions will the bank not increase the dividend by $0.06 in fourth quarter?

Under what circumstances. Yes. I mean if the wall continues, the market meltdown, the sacculation, demand disruption. So it depends on the macro, cash. So I don't want to overcommit now because we still have quarters ahead of us, and it's a very difficult environment to predict, which is why the team and I just focus on future's balance sheet, focus on growth, focus on credit, and built a strong foundation. Then by Q2, Q3, we should have more visibility. Sorry, I can't give you any guidance because I really don't know [indiscernible].

I understand that. So is it fair to say unless there is a reasonably bleak outcome, we should probably get that pickup?

Hope so.

No, that is all. I understand. You can't commit and I understand world is a difficult. Final question is on buyback. The capital set aside for buyback. What are the uses of that capital? How long will you wait for the stock to come back to come down? And if it continues to go up, whether are 5 or 10, 12 months from now, what do we do with that capital set aside for buyback?

Well, we've done 12%, right?

$400 million.

Yes, we've done $400 million, got $2.6 billion left. We said that we had up to 2027. So we've still got 1.5 years more to the side. So we will definitely keep you posted. As of now, because we coat whether the market will crash or not, I don't want to commit either way. but we will be prudent with the use of it, and we will keep to our promises.

So if -- sorry, sorry, sorry, Nick, I know I'm overstepping here, but just final thing. If we do not use this capital, is there a possibility that some of it can be paid back by end of '26? Or will you wait until end to pay back that $2.6 billion in what format?

We said it's 2027. So the buyback -- so yes, so we would still wait until 2027. If we don't actually do the buyback quantum in the -- in what we have committed, we will do it in the form of some kind of dividend is there [indiscernible] step to support, at least you have that sort of comfort that if all how breakthroughs and the markets tank, you've got that support that potentially.

Next question from Nick from Morgan Stanley.

First, just coming back to just balance sheet growth, actually. I wonder if you could just make any comments on sort of appetite to borrow from your customers? I mean is it sort of the way you're seeing working capital given lending because price is going up? Or is it that there is sort of still appetite for CapEx and any view you have on how that continues. And just linked to that, I know you've mentioned lots of reasons why you are getting deposits, but was there anything particular in Q1 that drove our deposit growth. And I've got a couple of other questions, after this.

Okay, I'll take the balance sheet growth question first, and you were asking about loan growth. I'm actually quite happy to see that the non-trade corporate loan growth pipeline is quite decent. First Q was driven by all the growth industries, right? So TMC data centers, tech platform, metals and mining, some real estate in Singapore for the government NAND sales. Although Hong Kong surprisingly, I guess that speaks to the recovery in the Hong Kong property market. How long we saw quite a lot of repayments in the real estate sector because they managed to sell a lot more and they could repay us. For second quarter, we continue to see decent growth. We've got a couple of big deals in the pipeline that I hope will go through. And it's in energy and renewable some real estate and some acquisition financing and again, TNT as well. So fairly decent in terms of the -- these are all mostly large corporates. We're not really growing in the midsize or SMEs right now. Kind of we growing in the consumer unsecured side. Then it depends, right? The couple of deals that I mentioned I hope to see them through is almost at the last stages, but anything can happen. So I don't want to dance -- and then trade loans as well, that seems tends to be quite end of quarter type of trade loans. But again, a lot of it around the AI server value chain, working capital for energy and renewables, and supply chain for chips. So again, that comes in normally at the third month of each quarter.

Your second question was around deposits. But what was the question on deposit?

Yes. You've given obviously lots [indiscernible] specific in Q1 that had driven that deposit.

Sorry, Nick, you were breaking up. I lost you for a bit.

Yes. No, my question was, you obviously saw good deposit from the first quarter, and you've mentioned lots of reasons why deposits are coming in. And generally, but I'm just wondering if there was any 1 factor that had driven deposit flows in the first quarter?

It's broad-based in to growth. And there was some first quarter, there was some retail seasonal bonus in Sol. There was corporate operating balances. There was -- we had a couple of successful FD campaigns as well. And I think the work that we're doing around our AI models around our campaigns, whether it's for the multiplier or for bundled products for corporate or SMEs is working I think a lot of it is just focused, right? We told the team, he focused on growing operating accounts, focus on winning mandates, focus on new-to-bank. So whether it's SME, CASA, whether it's large corporate operating balances, whether it's wealth, new accounts, whether it's retail, CASA bonus, it's just all saline firing for cash.

Okay. Perfect. And then my second question, just on bank and you've mentioned how it's grown and how it's important as a driving well. Can you give us any disclosure on roughly how much of your wealth management is coming from banker and how that changed Q-on-Q?

Well, how much is Banca versus -- it's roughly about 20% of total fees -- total fee income.

Terminal fees or total wealth fees?

Total wealth fees. I think it was on [indiscernible].

Yes, that's right. So we don't give details on Banca but about 20% of total wealth fees and have seen substantial increase from last year.

But it's lumpier, Nick. So if you have 1 big policy, sometimes it's lumpy. But as I mentioned, a lot of it depends on new-to-bank customers. And also we're getting some success around SME human policies as well.

And sorry, just 1 final one. CVG Wealth Management net new NPA formation in 1Q was 61%, which just looks like a bit of an outlier. I know it's small in the group context. Was there anything that drove that?

Yes, absolutely secured. So it should be okay. It's a 1 lumpy situation that will secure.

Last question, Sukriti, from Bank of America.

Congratulations on a good read of results. Can you hear me?

Yes. Go ahead.

Yes. Okay. So just keeping sort of 2 questions. One, just wanted to understand said on road should broadly GDP, but given the ongoing macro uncertainty, is there a risk that you see that loan growth surprises to the downside in the second half if corporates turn more cautious and what are some of the pockets many most watchful?

Yes. Well, I think we -- we're very focused on where we want to grow our loan book. So we're very nuanced on what we're avoiding as well. So as I said, the team knows that we want to go eat growth. And so that's TNT, the big as a whole semiconductor supply chain and avoiding the riskier credits. So I think -- and also renewables, of course, and then there's quite a lot of M&A deals in the pipeline. So I think we're good. Will it be canceled in the second half. So it really depends. So if the wall continues, then there is going to be downside risk, I think, on the asset book growth as deals get canceled. So -- but so far, from the pipeline that we're seeing, it looks okay. what has the price here on the downside people are repaying also right? It's not a bad thing. As I said earlier on, I said I didn't anticipate Hong Kong real estate loans to be repaid so quickly, but they were all repaid quite quicker than I anticipated. So in a way, it's good for credit, but it's less by asset book. But I think there is enough certainly in the TNT pipeline has enough around the corporate trade loans for the foreseeable future this year. Let's see. I mean, if the second half looks bad because of Iran then, we might have to shave a couple of billion of budget, but it's okay. I think we'll continue to grow deposits, and we'll continue to redeploy the excess deposits. So my NII, hopefully, we will still be in line with our own project projections.

And actually a follow-up there on the deposit side. We mentioned all deposits are accretive. But at what level do you see that excess dip orders become ROE dilutive? And how do we think about continued deposit growth if there's a risk that loan growth is not as high?

Doesn't matter, you want to go all out for deposit growth, right? Cash is king. Cash is queen. Cash is everything. So just go all up for deposit growth. Your loan growth, you'll be structured by the credit worthiness and the ROE and the cross sell and all that, and we are very careful about avoiding the bad credits and being instructive on trust testing, et cetera. But deposit growth just go on and win market share. at whether your loan growth is muted or not, you just go all out for the deposits you can redeploy that in H2 HQLA ROE. It's. It's good credit.

Yes, it will be NIM diluted. [indiscernible].

But don't worry about the NIM, look at the NII and look at the ROE.

Okay. Thanks, Sukuti. That's all the time we have. So thanks, everyone, for dialing in. We will speak to you again next quarter. Thank you.

Good morning and welcome to DBS' Financial Results Briefing. This morning, we announced first quarter net profit of $2.93 billion as total income reached a new high. As per our norm, our CEO, Tan Su Shan; and CFO, Chng Sok Hui, will share more about the quarter. Both will be speaking to slides which you can see on your screens. The slides can also be found on our Investor Relations website. And thereafter, we will take questions. So without further ado, Sok Hui, please.

Good morning, everyone. Let me start with Slide 2, the key highlights. We delivered a strong set of results for the first quarter. Net profit rose 1% year-on-year as total income reached a new high, while return on equity was 17%, return on tangible equity was 18.7%. Total income grew 1% from a year ago to a record $5.95 billion. While we continue to face lower rates than the stronger Sing dollar, our strong deposit growth and hedging mitigated the headwinds. Meanwhile, robust wealth management performance drove fee income and treasury customer sales to new highs and markets trading income strengthened from lower funding costs and improved trading conditions.

Compared to the previous quarter, net profit rose 24%, led by fee income, treasury customer sales and market trading income. Notably, group net interest income was little changed on a day-adjusted basis. Asset quality remained resilient. New NPA formation was at the low end of our quarterly range and was more than offset by repayments and write-offs. NPL ratio was stable at 1.0% and specific allowance at 14 basis points of loans was below our guided range. Capital remained strong. The CET1 ratio was 16.9% on a transitional basis and 14.8% on a fully phased-in basis. The Board declared a total dividend of $0.81 per share for the first quarter, comprising a $0.66 ordinary dividend and a $0.15 capital return dividend.

Slide 3. First quarter year-on-year performance. For the first quarter, net profit was $2.93 billion, 1% higher than a year ago. Group net interest income declined 5% as the impact of a lower interest rate and stronger Sing dollar were partially offset by hedging and balance sheet growth. Within this, commercial book net interest income fell 7% or $244 million to $3.48 billion. Fee income rose 16% or $207 million to a record $1.48 billion, led by wealth management.

Commercial book, other noninterest income grew 10% or $54 million to $602 million, driven by record treasury customer sales. Markets trading income strengthened 7% or $26 million to $389 million supported by lower funding costs and improved trading conditions. Expenses increased 4% or $88 million from higher staff costs. The cost-to-income ratio was 39%. And Profit before allowances of $3.65 billion was little changed. Total allowances of $190 million was almost half that of the previous year when we have prudently set aside $2 million -- $200 million of general provision overlay.

Slide 4. First quarter Q-on-Q performance. Compared to the previous quarter, net profit was up 24%. Group net interest income was little changed on a day-adjusted basis as hedging and balance sheet growth offset rate pressures. Within this commercial book net interest income was 3% or $117 million lower due to a shorter quarter. Fee income rose 35% or $383 million. Commercial book, other noninterest income grew 24% or $116 million and markets trading income more than doubled as all three grew from the previous quarter's seasonally low base.

Expenses declined 3% or $17 million to $2.30 billion due to lower non-staff costs. Total allowances were 9% or $19 million lower.

Slide 5, net interest income. Compared to the previous quarter, group net interest income of $3.49 billion was little changed on a day-adjusted basis. Group net interest margin declined 4 basis points to 1.89% as SORA trended lower during the quarter. The impact of lower rates was offset by balance sheet hedges and by strong deposit growth of $19 billion or 3% in constant currency terms during the quarter.

Compared to the previous quarter, group net interest income was 5% or $187 million lower. The average interest rate at the bottom of the slide highlights the extent of the interest rate declines we have faced. In particular, Singapore interest rates represented by SORA fell from 2.54% in first quarter 2025 to 1.07% in first quarter 2026. SORA is now less than half of what it was a year ago. Our proactive and nimble hedging strategy as well as strong deposit and loan growth helped claw back a large part of the interest rate headwinds. Our market trading business also benefited on lower funding costs.

Slide 6, deposits. During the quarter, the momentum in deposits remained strong. Total deposits rose 3% or $19 billion in constant currency terms to $630 billion. The increase was led by CASA inflows from both corporate and retail customers. As a result, our CASA ratio improved to 55%. Compared to a year ago, deposits grew 12% or $66 billion in constant currency terms. Liquidity remained healthy. The group's liquidity coverage ratio was 151%, and net stable funding ratio was 117%, both comfortably above regulatory requirements.

Slide 7 on loans. During the quarter, gross loans rose 2% or $8 billion in constant currency terms to $459 billion. The increase was driven by non-trade corporate loans as well as wealth loans. Slide 8, fee income. Gross fee income rose 14% to a new high of $1.71 billion. The growth was broad-based and was led by record wealth management fees, which increased 25% year-on-year due to higher investment product sales and bancassurance. Transaction service fees also rose to record levels and card and investment banking fees were also higher. Compared to the previous quarter, gross fee income rose 24%, led by a 41% growth in Wealth Management.

Slide 9. Customer-driven noninterest income. This slide shows noninterest income from the commercial book that is customer driven. While fee income and treasury customer sales are recorded under different P&L lines due to accounting treatment both are driven by consumer and corporate demand for financial solutions and should be viewed together. For the first quarter, customer-driven noninterest interest income rose 13% from a year ago to $2.07 billion as net fee income rose 16% to $1.48 billion, and treasury customer sales grew 5% to $592 million. Both were at new highs driven by broad-based growth and led by wealth management.

Compared to the previous quarter, customer-driven noninterest income rose 31% in as the strong performance was amplified by the seasonally slow quarter. The continued strength in our customer-driven noninterest income reflects our efforts to broaden and deepen relationships with wealth, corporate and institutional clients.

Slide 10, Wealth Management. The Wealth Management segment, which comprises Treasures, Treasures Private Client and the Private Bank was a key growth during the quarter. Total income grew 7% year-on-year to a record $1.59 billion, led by a 19% increase in noninterest income which more than offset the decline in net interest income from lower rates. During the quarter, AUM reached a record $492 billion, up 17% year-on-year in constant currency terms. It was up 1% compared to the previous quarter despite softer market conditions as robust net new money inflow of $10 billion more than offset mark-to-market losses.

Slide 11, expenses. Expenses were tightly managed and rose 4% compared to the previous year. The increase was led by higher staff costs. The cost-to-income ratio was 39% compared to the previous quarter, expenses were 3% lower due to declines in non-staff costs.

Slide 12, nonperforming assets. Nonperforming assets fell 3% from the previous quarter to $4.72 billion. Nonperforming asset formation was at the low end of our quarterly range. It was more than offset by repayments and write-offs. The NPL ratio remained stable at 1.0%.

Slide 13 on specific allowances. First quarter specific allowances amounted to $157 million or 14 basis points of loans. This was below our guided range of 17 to 20 basis points. Specific allowances more than half from the previous quarter, which included the downgrade of a real estate exposure. Slide 14, general allowances. At end March, total allowance reserves stood at $6.2 billion, comprising $2.31 billion in specific allowance reserves and $3.89 billion in general allowance reserves. General allowance reserves remain prudent with the overlay at $2.4 billion. Allowance coverage was at 131% and at 200% after considering collateral.

Slide 15, capital. The reported CET1 ratio declined 0.1 percentage points from the previous quarter to 16.9%, driven by higher RWA, partially offset by profit accretion. On a fully phased-in basis, the pro forma ratio decreased 0.2 percentage points to 14.8%. The leverage ratio was 5.9%, significantly above the regulatory minimum of 3%.

Slide 16 on dividend. The Board declared a total dividend of $0.81 per share for the first quarter, comprising an ordinary dividend of $0.66 and a capital return dividend of $0.15. Based on yesterday's closing share price and assuming that total dividends are held at $0.81 per quarter, the annualized dividend yield is 5.7%.

Slide 17. In summary, we had a strong start to the year with record total income and a return on equity of 17% despite continued rate headwinds and heightened geopolitical uncertainty. The quarter was anchored by record wealth management performance alongside robust deposit growth, record transaction services fees and stronger markets trading income. This reflects the resilience of our franchise and our ability to capture opportunities and support client needs amidst a challenging environment.

While Iran war and its potential second order effects have added uncertainty to the outlook, our stress tests indicate that our credit portfolio remains sound. Our solid balance sheet with prudent general allowance buffers strong capital position and robust liquidity underpins our resilience. We also continue to invest in structural growth initiatives, including transformational technology to enhance how we serve our customers and capture long-term opportunities.

Thank you very much for your attention, and I'll now pass you to Su Shan.

Thanks, Sok Hui. So I think the team did a really good job in the start of the year. I'd like to think of us as that lighthouse in the sea of volatility. You see that picture of us, our Lighthouse and our annual report on the cover. And I'd like to think that we have built a fortress balance sheet. So we are underpinned by a very strong foundation that will weather the storms ahead if it's stormy. And then it's not stormy and it's sunny, yet the light will still be shining and we will be -- we'll be partying. We'll be taking on all the growth opportunities ahead of us. So we're going to weather the storm if things go stormy but we're also going to get the upside if things look up. We don't know. The truth is the future, this year, the short-term future doesn't look very clear. Politics could go either way. And that's why staying resilient in a time of great stress is so important.

And staying resilient means having a strong balance sheet, being nimble and being able to meet the volatilities ahead. But all this time building a strong recurring base of good fee income, good new-to-bank customers, solid credit, no surprises, stress test, stress test, stress tests and also underpinning this a constant focus on innovation, AI, agentic AI and not keeping the eye off the ball on credit stresses. So that's kind of in a nutshell the analogy I want to draw for all of you, which was manifested in the first quarter.

The first quarter, the team overdelivered relative to our budget and relative to the market analysts, having a record total income, record commercial book, total income, record PBT and record AUM in spite of interest rates dropping as much as it has, I think thus testify the strength of our franchise. So record total fees, total income, ROE at 17% all testimony to a decent momentum. We were very pleased by the deposit growth. That was certainly stronger than we anticipated. And it speaks to the plumbing work that we've done over the years around getting both operating income -- operating cash accounts. GTS did a very good job on having a good momentum around new to bank customers and winning a lot more new cash mandates. Wealth did a good job of solid AUM growth.

In spite of solid net new money growth, AUM was affected by market performance on the equity side. But nonetheless, our corporate treasury also capitalized on the high volatility by taking on a lot of hedging opportunities for us. We've maintained our fixed asset at $210 billion, but we were able to put on more hedges than we thought and our NII sensitivity will remain at SGD 11 million, so SGD 11 million change per basis point for the Sing dollar and minus USD 4 million per basis point.

So I was really pleased by the record wealth management performance. Wealth management fees were up 25%. And what was interesting was it was broad-based. The new-to-bank AUM growth was also broad-based but underpinning this broad-based growth was actually very, very strong banker sales. The banker sales was record high. And that speaks to banking, long-term, sticky relationships, it speaks to us winning share of mind and share of for wallet, but also the next generation is involved, and that will create sticky fees for the long term.

Transaction banking fees at $257 million up 8% and is also sticky. We hope to do a lot more with that. First quarter net new money was at $10 billion, that was, as I said, broad-based. And you would have read the press report that DBS Private Bank was the first Asian private bank to win the World's Best Private Bank award first time in Euromoney's 22-year history, very, very proud of the team there. And for society, you would have also read the press that our Singapore team committed a new commitment of $10 million to help consumers and SMEs, weather the crisis in Singapore.

Expenses, pretty solid. We're up 4%. That's down from our normal plus 8%. Cost income ratio slightly below 40%. We will remain disciplined. We will remain very cognizant of not having too high of a cost rise, so we will be disciplined in our costs. But we will also continue to support clients through these uncertain times.

In terms of Middle East exposure, we have very limited Middle East exposure and our new NPA formation was at the low end. And I think we've been very prudent. Sok Hui, mentioned GP reserves at $3.9 billion or GP overlay at $2.4 billion. We have stress tested the Middle East conflict over and over again, stress tested all at a 120, 200 FX rates down for rupee, rupiah, et cetera. I am pleased to say that whilst we are watchful, I think our GP is ample. Our GP reserves are ample to cover what if any unexpected scenarios ahead of us. So we're not complacent, but I think we are very prudent, and we have ample reserves.

Next slide. So you'll recall a year ago, we talked about all the structural growth focus we have. So obviously, wealth management, wealth management, both onshore and offshore. We talked about FIG financial institutions and II Coverage. We talked about TMT. We talked about payments, GTS and so I'm pleased to report that all that structural focus on growth cylinders are being executed upon, they are yielding fruit, and we're seeing the results, and it's coming in nicely. So for wealth, both onshore and offshore, we've been quite aggressively growing our footprint. We've launched new wealth centers in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and we've also refreshed our TPC offering in places like Indonesia, Singapore, Taiwan, and we're seeing the fruits.

Particularly pleasing was Taiwan. Taiwan consumer banking franchise is up strongly. Wealth Management in Taiwan is up 30% and we just opened in Kaohsiung as well, special SEZ. So we have a new wealth management license there. So I think -- and Taiwan GDP growth has been very strong. So the Citi integration, the new wealth focused alongside our higher-end cards focus is yielding fruit. North Asia is also growing very well. The Hong Kong Wealth Management business is growing very well, both at the Treasures and at the high net worth level. China onshore wealth is also growing well as interest rates are low. DBS has a good branding for safety and good wealth management products. So we've been winning market share there as well.

Over at IBG, the Institutional Banking Group, our focus on TMT, FIG and institutional equities is also yielding results. TMT first quarter results were up 14% to $220 million more pleasing though is the fee income there was up 27%. Even in China, TMT, our focus has been around both the semiconductor ecosystem for Taiwan for TMT generally also for data centers. We're also identifying new winners in AI for health care, for logistics, for advanced manufacturing for robotics, EVs, et cetera. So really getting deep into those industry knowledge, but also penetrating some of the big good quality clients.

For FIG, our financial institutions group, that grew 10% as well. our II coverage for sovereign wealth funds, for fund managers, across banks, nonbanks, insurance and digital asset players is also growing nicely. So that will continue to churn good, both good fee and nonfee income as well. And then the institutional equity business, which we also put in some new focus, we managed to penetrate new to bank institutional equities and first quarter our cash equity business was up very strong double digits. Cash equity is up 77% and total institutional equity was up 36%. So showing some real new progress there. We started to do more block trading solutions. We're doing block placements, secondaries, et cetera. So I'm very pleased to see that starting to bear fruit.

Also across the board, whether it's SME, whether it's in wealth, it's in consumer bank, everyone's been very focused on new to bank, very focused on supporting growth, very focused in penetrating with depth and width. And so I think that speaks to us getting a lot more recurring fee going forward. Why? Because as you onboard new clients, you get the cash management, you get the recurring payments fee, you get their wealth, you get a whole host of snowballing of recurring fee. That's just good for business. But as you win, as you get depth in industry coverage, you also get the lead for structuring the lead for syndicated loans. And you will see that our loan fees are also growing very nicely.

On the risk side, a year ago, we started to derisk. We derisked our SME portfolios in some markets. We derisked our unsecured consumer loans in some markets, and that is now turning out to be a good decision. So we've been circumspect on risk, we tighten up. And a year later, I think we're in a good place.

So next slide, what's the 2026 outlook? Well, we are now saying that we're not expecting any rate cuts from the U.S. because of the war because of the high price of oil caused by the war. We're assuming no rate cuts now from the U.S. We are maintaining our SORA guidance at 1% or actually, that's slightly below. We were looking at 1.25%. Now we're at 1%. And we are not accounting for SORA to trade higher. But if it does, well, that's upside for us. So again, our full year guidance is total income should be at or around the 2025 levels. And what we're seeing though is I think we're seeing higher-than-expected deposit growth. So deposit growth should be at the higher single-digit range. Loan growth will be in the mid-single-digit range. And as volatility continues, we will continue to capture hedging opportunities.

So again, just relentless focus on growing customers, deepening wallet share, focusing on the growth corridors, focusing on what we do best, focusing on recurring fee, building a fortress balance sheet, maintaining cost discipline, right? Okay. So let's talk about the next -- actually. So to close, I think what I want to say is, I think first quarter was testimony to the hard work that the team has put in to build a solid foundation, a solid foundation to weather the storm, a solid foundation to grow and you will see from the fee growth, the new-to-bank customers, what we're doing on AI, et cetera, that the foundation for growth is there. We will weather what storms come ahead of us, whether it's a prolonged war, high inflation or rates coming down in Singapore, et cetera, we are ready for the worst case scenario, but we hope for the best case scenario. Thank you.

Thank you, Su Shan. We can now proceed to take questions from the media.

[Operator Instructions] We have a question from Rthvika from Bloomberg.

This is Rthvika from Bloomberg. I have a couple of questions for Su Shan today. Firstly, I want to talk about deposits. Deposits grew 9%, while loans rose about 4%. How are you thinking about this deposit glut? And what's DBS doing with the excess funding given that lending isn't keeping pace?

Okay. We can take that. So generally, loan growth should follow GDP growth may be slightly higher, it depends, right? It depends on how businesses feel about their own growth opportunities. And obviously, if the war is prolonged, and businesses don't feel confident our business or credit starts to be looking bad, then loan growth will not be as strong as GDP growth or it will be just at GDP growth. So mid-single digit, I think, is fair. What I saw in the last few months is the IBG non-trade loan is growing. It's particularly growing where there's structural growth. So semiconductors, TMT, FIG et cetera. And so I'm quite happy with the -- and some of the GLS, the government land sales, both in Singapore and Hong Kong. So I'm actually constructive on the kind of loans that we're putting on even though it's sort of mid-single digit.

Deposit growth, you're right. It is very strong. It tends to follow M2, plus or minus a little bit. It tends to follow M2. But our game is to get more than our fair share of deposit growth. And we are doing this because it's very good for us. Whatever new extra deposits we will deploy in HQLA, that's high ROE business. That's low risk, and it's liquid. And if we can continue on this path of high deposit growth, especially for CASA, high low-cost deposit growth, that's all upside. So the team is very focused on delivering.

And I want to pivot a bit to your statement mentioned some newly launched wealth centers to capture flows. Where are these located? And how are you seeing meaningful inflows from clients moving out of the Middle East? .

Okay. I'll take the -- well, we're seeing flows across the board, right? It's not suddenly Iran happens and you have flows from the Middle East or whatever. It's really -- our growth is across segments, across different countries, across both onshore and offshore. What we are also seeing is the wealth centers creates an onshore focus. So whether it's Taiwan, China, Indonesia, India, of course, Singapore and Hong Kong are the two wealth hubs.

But all the other growth markets, we are growing our onshore wealth centers because there is capital in all those markets. Taiwan is creating wealth. The GP growth is so strong, the whole semiconductor industries and the spillover of the supply chain, the mid-cap SME guys are also growing their wealth. The stock market has been great. So there's a lot of organic growth to capture. So the Citi franchise that we bought is turning out to be very good. And the customers that we got, the staff that we've got is turning out to be very good and we're just really bedding down that franchise.

I'm going to pass on to layer in Tse Koon, our Consumer Wealth Head?

Yes, just to build on what Su Shan has said, the wealth centers that Su Shan, was talking about are primarily really to serve the onshore wealth that's built up. So we have a whole wealth continuum a full spectrum, right, from the affluent space, which is what we call Treasures into Treasures Private Clients and then the Private Banking franchise. Now the TPC and PB, right, are really global businesses where we already serve 120 -- over 120 nationalities primarily booked in Singapore, Hong Kong being two international wealth hubs. But apart from that, where we have our onshore presence in several of those markets, those that Su Shan talked about China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, India, Indonesia, Singapore, we have these wealth centers. And these primarily serve the affluent customers, so the Treasures segment in particular, who will walk into wealth centers and open accounts and have their accounts served.

Now obviously, within Singapore and Hong Kong being wealth hubs themselves, even in the affluent space, we do see travelers coming in from various places, and they do tend to also show up or make appointments to meet at our wealth centers to open up their Treasures accounts.

Right. And just going back to Su Shan, I just have two more, sorry with $10 billion in net new money this quarter and wealth fees at a record, are you hiring more relationship managers to keep up? And where are you focused on growing headcount? And my second question is on AI, MAS has flagged concerns about Anthropic's Mythos model. And JPMorgan is the only bank with early access through Project Glasswing. Is DBS currently in talks with a product to get access? And how is the bank thinking about the cyber risks, the model possesses.

Tse Koon can answer the RM question, I'll take the Anthropic one.

Thank you. On hiring, the answer is yes. We are certainly still in a growth mode because we do see huge potential, as Su Shan alluded to as well. There is a rapid growth of wealth within Asia, and we are also still seeing wealth flowing into Asia. And for that reason, Asia has become really a very credible place for wealth management. So we're still hiring on all fronts across all 3 segments of Treasures, TPC and PB.

Right. And is there some sort of scale or number that you can give us like a measure of percentage increase and how much hiring has gone up?

No. I don't think we -- I mean...

we don't disclose that.

Yes, yes. And as far as we are concerned, we are on a growth mode, and we are constantly looking but with good talent. We will have the talents in there and we see a good talent.

And the truth is we also have an internal bench, right? We started the wealth continuing very early in 2010. And so we move our RMs from Retail to Priority Bank, Priority Bank to Treasures Private Client, from Treasures Private Client to Private Bank. So it's a nice continuum and the RMs go up the continuum along with their clients as the clients grow their wealth. So it's fairly organic as well. So we have both internal bench and external, we attract talent.

And just to add to that, we are also aware that this is a growing space. So apart from those that we hire from outside or we moved through the continuum, we also have been consistently hiring fresh graduates over the last couple of years. So we work with the local universities. We have a program ongoing, where these university students come in the midst of their course and spend 6 to 9 months with us in special programs that we tailored with the universities and it is from there that we also then hire when they graduate. And this is how we continue to grow our own timber, build our own strength and do the right thing by society as well.

Okay. So your question on Mythos. Needless to say, everybody in the financial industry, particularly here is very, very focused on making sure that we are on top of this what Mythos does, it doesn't actually -- it's not a new attack as such. But what it does is it amplifies the risk from both a speed perspective, it's faster to market and from a volume perspective, the blast radius is fast. What it can do is it can chain together a few vulnerabilities to broaden the attack path. So it's not a new class of attack. But the speed and the barriers to attack is now shorter. What does it mean? It means, number one, attackers can use this tech to detect vulnerabilities faster? But it also means banks and our cyber team can use this tech to detect vulnerabilities faster as well.

So you need to protect yourself faster than the attacker, right? So the immediate task at hand is to make sure that you've got all the patches you have your strong internal hygiene inside and up. You have what we call layer defense to prevent chaining. So we do that anyway. And we use so we can augment with AI. So that's all I'll say about this.

Okay. And nothing on whether DBS is trying to get access.

On the Project Glasswing, I've told is all U.S., right? It's all U.S.

For now?

Yes.

We've got a question from Yantoultra from Reuters.

My first question -- I have a couple of questions. The first one does DBS still stand by your earlier guidance that from fourth quarter that net profit may be slightly below 2025 levels and that GP write-backs are possible. If these are no longer highlighted in this quarter, has anything changed?

So I think it's a more nuanced guidance that we're getting for this quarter. Things may still pan out. But as far as we can see, it's actually turned slightly more positive than the last guidance. And therefore, we can -- we have a good shot, I think, getting close to 2025 levels. So it's not like definitely we will be flat, but it's better than the guidance we gave last round that we would be below 2025. So that's the first thing I would say. I think general provisions, we have $3.9 billion, of which $2.4 billion is what we call overlays and it caters for a lot of stress tests. And you remember that we actually put up about $1.8 billion during COVID. And then we put on some more along the way, including $200 million last year due to the Liberation Day.

So I think we are in a good place. Whether it's timely to release, we'll have to look at how the situation pans out in the Middle East. I think it's too early to call. It could be possible that if things look better, we would be in a position to release, but we'll wait and see.

I think to add on to what Sok Hui has said, we're quite honest on our outlook. So we said that we are predicting SORA at 1%, and we're using that as a guidance. And our sensitivity is minus -- well, it's SGD 11 million per basis point for Sing and then for U.S. dollar, it's minus USD 4 million per basis point. So the analysts on the call can figure that out based on their own judgment call and where rates are going to go. The fees -- the wealth management fees will go up and down with the market. So that's hard to predict. But the more important thing is we're getting new to bank, we're getting AUMs and our kind of regular fee from either from third-party funds or discretionary funds with our CIO or from GTS or from loans fee, all that should churn higher. And our banker fees as well is helping to mitigate whatever volatility we see in investment fees, right?

So, we feel good about the fundamentals, but the macros are very hard to tell, very hard to call because the market is volatile. Interest rate volatility is the highest we've seen this, right? So when the interest rates are in our favor, we hedge what we can. When it goes against us, well, we were expecting it, right? So I think that's the way to kind of to pitch because it's very hard to pinpoint with a crystal ball just because we don't know when the war will end.

Right. Yes. And thank you so much. And yes, that goes directly to my second question is, how do you see like the Iran conflict can affect like DBS asset quality like via oil prices, inflation or customer stress. Should we actually expect any change in like credit causes or impairments? .

So we did many stress tests, as I said earlier on, our Middle East exposure is very limited, and it's really to sovereign wealth funds and to state-owned assets. So it's a very high credit rating. So we're not too concerned. So the first order impact is really quite muted. The second order other impact is what we are more focused on because, obviously, if inflation remains high, price of oil remains high. But more importantly, it's not just the high inflation, it's the lack of supply, right? So if companies don't get access to fuel oil, if airlines don't get access to fuel oil from June onwards or from late May onwards. If chemical companies, fertilizer companies don't get access to upstream chemical inputs like methylene, ethylene glycol, polypropylene, et cetera. That's a problem.

And I don't think this issue, this supply crunch will be solved by higher rates or tighter monetary policy because it's a supply side issue, which will be solved over time but we're going to have to live through potentially 1 or 2 quarters of supply chain breakages. You will see in the long term now everyone is planning for diversified supply chains for energy, for example. This will quicken the investments in renewables. That's good for us because we've got a strong renewables team and we're very focused on that as a growth asset class. So it'll be more focused on renewables.

You already see EV car purchasing going up. There will also be a lot more infrastructure spend around gas pipelines and energy pipelines, and we're also on top of that. So that's the long term. But the short term, we might have to live with supply chain breakages, very high inflation and lack of supply of some stuff, which we have stress tested, right? And as I said earlier on, we derisked our SME and consumer unsecured loans already a year ago last year, rather. And I think on that side, we're okay. For the large corporates that will suffer whether it's from high freight rates or logistic costs or just lack of inputs or lack of supply, whether it's of chips, whatever, helium, we stress tested that, and we're okay, but we're watchful.

And just one last question, following the nice questions asked by our colleague at Bloomberg. I just want to get your view on following this Mythos event, do you still see AI as a net benefit to productivity and profits or rather a new cost or risk now.

Absolutely. We see it as a net positive. It's really -- DBS is doing a lot around AI. As you know, we started our AI journey in 2016 with a more deterministic model-based AI. We've created enough models. We already -- we look at the A/B testing and the outcomes have been very good. So that's what I'd like to call the classic AI. Then when ChatGPT came in, in 2023, we started to experiment and use generative AI for both horizontal use cases. So everyone can use it within safety guardrails and vertical use cases, whether it's for the call center, whether it's for credit memo writing, for cards, for wealth, for corporate banks, et cetera. And then when the agentic world came in we just took our board to Silicon Valley in March this year, early March this year. And we've been talking and working with a lot of platform companies, LLMs, frontier models, start-ups, the whole works, right? And my team has gone to China.

So our tech teams, our transformation teams, our AI teams, our data teams are all on top of what's going on. What's happening is that such a speed and scale that sometimes I think the human mind can't digest all this quickly, but we want to do the right thing, both by our customers and by our employees, right? So what does that mean? Number one is get your hygiene, get your house in order. That means get your data in order, right? So you know that we've already created a data lake for structured data. We're now embarking on a project to ensure that end-to-end data ownership, security, hygiene, all that is clean.

We continue to work on our deterministic models. We continue to use generative AI to help our staff synthesize, summarize, do simple tasks, ,do complicated tasks in the verticals. And we have started work on an agent control plane, where we will also create enterprise-based agents. Anything that touches productions, by the way, we are very cautious, but we are creating a control plane where we have 11 big enterprise use cases that we think will be game-changing for us. I don't want to say too much because it's early days, but we are excited to look at initial outcomes are very good. Especially the use case for technology, for coding, the use cases for operations. They're all very good outcomes. It helps to make you more resilient because it takes away the human error.

Even when you have make checkers, sometimes you have human error. So this AI helps to prevent the human errors from happening so often. It really crunches down the time to market for development and coding, it really helps the human eye take a lot more information, put in your policies, put in your procedures. We're creating a whole knowledge base to make sure that every single thing that we know about our products, our plants or procedures and all that's being done. So a heck of a lot of work that I haven't unveiled yet is being done to build the right foundation on which we can grow to become the best AI-enabled bank with a heart. That's our mission.

We have a question from Goola from The Edge. Goola, you need to unmute yourself.

Can you hear me now?

yes, we can.

Thanks, Edna. Congratulations on the very good results because times are very volatile. I just want to ask a couple of very small questions. I believe that the flows between the Middle East and India are quite big. So what is it like for DBS India and I think the Indian banks have reported some impact on their loan growth and NIM. So is there any impact on DBS India? And additionally, Also, I've been told that there's been a lot of volatility in the rupee and the rupiah. So how have these affected DBS because you've got your Southeast Asian markets as one segment.

And the second question is which markets have you derisked your SME and consumer loans? Are they these two markets?

Yes. So your first question on India. Indeed, India being a net importer of oil, we're watchful of some of the vulnerable borrowers. We've watch listed all the ones that we think are vulnerable. There's not much. It's the additional watch list is very, very small right now because in India, still our main book is to the large corporates, MNCs and the top corporates in India, who are multinationals. But we are stress testing for rupee and rupiah volatility, and that's why we have been fairly conservative there. And the markets that we reduced our CCUL credit card unsecured loans is in India, Indonesia and a little bit in China.

Okay. How does the -- is the China book all right?

Is the China book all right?

Yes. I mean, because we've heard there have been some stresses in some of our listed entities that have exposure to China.

Well, you know in last quarter, right, we were very prudent. We took one exposure to NPL. So we haven't increased any of our China -- if you're asking about real estate, we haven't increased anything there. It's still flat, but we took one out as an NPA. So we were being cautious even though actually that company is still current. But anyway, we were just being conservative, and we took it last year. What is our view on China?

I think China is standing out now in terms of the lack of volatility, if you will, right? I just came back from the China Development Forum, and I was struck by the persistent openness of the country, the transparency, what they say they do, they do they say. And yes, I mean, it's a very competitive market. But China, you can identify your winners by focusing on what are the growth engine -- what are the growth cylinders of China? It's science and technology. It's EV, it's battery, it's AI for logistics, AI for health care. So we have a whole infrastructure team to focus on what we call these new economy winners. Then they are identified and they will grow and they will win. They will win the manufacturing 4.0 game. They will win, I think, the med tech AI game, the medical device game and the data usage is pretty good.

So whilst the LLM and all that may not be valued as highly as the U.S. ones, we are seeing that two things are happening. There is a strong focus on R&D by the country. There is a strong focus on talent usage, number of engineers graduating from top schools, something like $16 million. And a lot of them are being deployed in robotics and high-end R&D. So we're excited to see what will come out of this focus for the country. In the meantime, we're not really in the SME or unsecured business. The consumer confidence there is still, I guess, a little bit muted. But we see green shoots.

Hong Kong certainly is seeing a strong recovery right now, right, both in residential as well as central commercial buildings, Kowloon West, et cetera, the Northern Metropolis, et cetera. And Taiwan is obviously is going gangbusters. So I think North Asia is looking rather better than a year ago in totality. And there are green shoots that we're seeing out of China. And you're also seeing -- I think what will come is probably more focused on the internationalization of the RMB, the use of CIPS and the use of RMB slowly, slowly, but the use of RMB as a funding currency and the currency for trade settlements.

Are there any other questions? Just I wanted to give the media on the call a moment. If you do have a question, please raise your hand. Yes, it look like we're good. So thank you, everyone. Since there are no further questions, we will end the call here. The analyst briefing will start at 11:30. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, everyone, welcome to the analyst briefing. You've heard the media, poll and the presentation then, so we can go straight to Q&A.

So without further ado, first question from Melissa from Goldman Sachs.

I just have a few questions. Just on the...

Can you start again. You're a bit soft?

Okay. Can you hear me now? Is it better?

Yes. Yes.

Okay. So that's the first question on the real estate. I just wanted to -- I know you can't name the company, but can we give a little bit of clarity as to the size of which was put into the NPL? And also, is there just one this quarter? Or was there a few other smaller ones maybe that you could let us know. That's the first question.

Then on the second question, in the presentation for your NII guidance, you used the SORA of 1.25%. Given where SORA is today, will there be caution in terms of where your guidance is? And perhaps can you refresh us in terms of your sensitivity, I think Sok Hui was saying it's a bit more sensitive. But can we have the numbers again for the sensitivity of the Sing dollar and the U.S. dollar book?

And then maybe just lastly on the share buyback. I guess that has stopped for a while now. What is the thoughts there on the share buyback program? And if the money is not fully utilized when -- at what point will you share with us how the money is going to be returned to shareholders?

Okay, Melissa, this is Su Shan. So I guess you can infer from our disclosures, the size. We can't mention any names. But I need to reiterate that it is a subjective NPL because technically, it has not defaulted and exposure is less than $0.5 billion. And are there other smaller exposures around there? No. China, real estate exposure left is about $10 billion, of which $4 billion is to SOEs, $4 billion is to like strong foreign entities like Singapore-based Temasek companies and $1 billion is to POEs, privately owned enterprise, of which the LTV is about 50%. So I think we're fairly comfortable. We've already taken quite a lot of GP as the Chinese market started to correct a few years back. So our GP buffer has been quite strong. As I said, the GP overlay is $2.4 billion in total. So I think we're quite comfortable. Anything you want to add, Sok Hui?

I think if you look at the disclosure, look for Hong Kong, right, you see Hong Kong's NPL ratio has gone up. That gives you an idea of the size of the NPL, the specific provisions that we have taken for this larger name. I think in Singapore, you see a big -- some creep up as well, but that's a smaller name. Yes. So basically, I would say, 2 big names. One is much larger in Hong Kong. Singapore is a smaller name.

Okay. And, Melissa, your second question around NII sensitivity. So we have a Sing dollar net floating asset size of about $103 billion. So the sensitivity there would be $10 million per basis point. And then we have a net U.S. dollar floating liability of $40 billion. So the sensitivity there would be $4 million per basis point in the reverse.

Your question was around SORA at 1.25%, right? And given that SORA, I mean, I don't know whether you've noticed, but the intraday volatility can be 50%, 80%, it is incredibly volatile. It isn't the best gauge of right, the real cost of money in Singapore. Another guidance you can look at is to look at some of the MAS bills, which are more stable. And year-to-date, that's about 1.35% to 1.45%. Today, it's about 1.28%. Then your third question was around sharebuybacks.

I appreciate the question on the interest rate sensitivity. So you can make your own assumptions on where you think SORA is at. But in terms of the interest rate sensitivity, so we are not a $10 million per basis point with a lot more deposits coming in with some of the fixed rate assets that will mature and if they are not replaced, we will increase our sensitivity. Our estimate is that's probably $14 million per basis point.

But for the U.S. dollar NII sensitivity, it remains minus $4 million per basis point. So that's net repricing liabilities remain at $4 million per basis point, and we stand to benefit if U.S. dollar rates are cut.

And if we think that we have bottomed out on Sing dollar rates, then we stand to benefit when Sing dollar SORA, Sing dollar rates go up.

All right. And then your third question, Melissa, was around the share buybacks. We've probably done about 12% so far. And we want to be opportunistic. I think who knows that might -- if there's a crash later this year or so, maybe we will do more. The fact is, even though we did not buy at these levels does not mean we never will. So we just want to be more opportunistic. But we are committed to returning the $8 billion of excess capital.

So we've utilized 12% of the $3 billion, so about $370 million. And we've done about $1.3 billion of the capital returns. So net-net, we've done about 21% of the $8 billion.

Okay. I think we can move on. Yong Hong, next question from Citi.

This is Yong Hong from Citi. So just three separate questions. Firstly, on the asset quality. I just wondered what drove the NPL downgrade because you mentioned that the borrowers are still current. Was it driven by rating agency downgrade? And if that was the driver, any measures you are taking to ringfence potential borrowers who could still be paying by the risk of rating downgrade?

And secondly, on margins and deposits, how sustainable is that 9% deposit growth? And if we assume SORA to stabilize and U.S. rates to come up by 50 basis points, should we be thinking that margins should be quite stable from where we are? And a follow-up to that is what is the net floating asset quantum and what is the repricing difference?

And finally, on capital, when does the $0.24 annual dividends lift off? And also some update on where are we to address the concerns of -- from the MAS on your digital outage that resulted in 50 bps of capital withheld. These are my three questions.

Su Shan?

Okay, I can take some of the questions. Okay. I mean I can talk about the NPL downgrade and the reasons behind it. I think we are being prudent. The signs were that there is really liquidity pressure around the company. And I do believe that -- I mean, if the restructuring happens then, okay, we could take a write-back. But as we said, it is subjective. Are there any other issues around asset quality and all that? I honestly don't think so. We've been pretty conservative and pretty prudent.

Your second question was around deposit growth, right? Honestly, what you mentioned, scenario, you mentioned where U.S. rates go down and Sing dollar rates go up, I mean that for us is the best-case scenario. But we are not forecasting that best-case scenario. We are forecasting Sing rates to remain low, Sing dollar to remain strong. And the U.S. -- we are looking at two rate cuts in the U.S.

But deposit growth, we think will continue to be strong as long as Singapore remains a safe haven, and Hong Kong remains a strong capital markets hub. And both look -- both structural trends look to be continuing. I don't think it will be as strong as last year because last year, we had added tailwinds of the Sing dollar treasury bills maturing. That will abate this year. It won't be as much as last year. So we don't think that the delta will be as strong as last year. But nonetheless, we still think we should see growth.

But it will be seasonal. You got growth in March. You get growth in the year-end, et cetera. So it will be seasonal. And there will be some transitional large chunks depending on deal flow, et cetera, from the large corporates.

You want to take the net floating asset repricing?

Yes. So I think, Yong Hong, the deposit growth, you said 9%, I guess that's the reported currency. If we look at constant currency, we actually grew 12%. So like Su Shan says we're likely to see another 12% growth this year, but we'll probably still see sort of strong inflows into Singapore but probably not at the 12% level.

We don't focus so much on NIM for the year because we have been trying to guide that. Actually, net interest income is what you should focus on. So for example, notwithstanding the sort of rate and NIM pressures, you find that with deposit growth and hedging our portfolio, we can actually show net interest income growth, and that's really what you want to focus on.

And I think your last question was on the guidance for dividend. I think when we gave the guidance previously, our 2023 Investor Day, we said we would start with $0.06. And we've already done it for 3 years, '23, '24, '25. And that was before we came out with a plan to return excess capital. So we've got a plan to return $8 billion and that is already articulated on the return -- capital return dividend.

Going forward, I think it depends on how we perform because the ordinary dividend will come out of, I guess, our financial performance. We would -- we can continue to step up. We can slow down the pace. So very much will depend on the financial operating performance. And that's the guidance sort of at this point in time.

Yes. I think those were all your questions, Yong Hong. The next question from Harsh from JPMorgan.

I'll go one by one on the questions. First is, to the point on capital return, 21% is done. This is a 3-year commitment if I get it right. So is it fair to say that in 2026 and 2027, we should have a much higher pace of capital return? And if you are unable to do buyback, how do we think about the distribution of that capital that you have earmarked for buyback in '26 and '27?

We still have quite a bit of time, Harsh, to end of 2027. So we have -- as far as the $5 billion of capital return dividend, you know that's already committed. So I'm talking about the share buyback of $3 billion, where we've already done 12% of the share buyback. We'll look for opportunities. And if not, we don't find the opportunities, we'll find other ways to give back the excess capital.

Right. So basically, if let's say, in course of 2026, let's say share price stays strong, whatever be your preferred entry point, if it doesn't hit that, then there will be a special dividend -- a large special dividend in '27. That's how we should think about it.

That is one possible construct.

So as we said, we were committed. So let's -- we will discuss with the Board and we'll arrive at a decision then. But we don't want to commit to anything right now because the markets are so volatile, Harsh, and you never know, right?

Yes, market are volatile, but your stock is not. So it'll be good to, yes, understand a bit more granularity on it. And again, as we discussed last time, if there is more systemic buyback, it will be useful.

Second question is on net new money growth. Fantastic outcome in 2025. In '26, should we expect similar net new money growth or higher? And also which markets, geographies are driving that? And I have one question after that.

Okay. So I'll kick off and then Tse Koon, our Head of Consumer Wealth can supplement. So net new money growth, we now report it for all 3 segments, starting with Private Bank, Treasures Private Client and then Treasures. And the reason we do this is we really believe in the continuum, right?

The sort of smooth transition of wealth across the 3 segments. And we also believe in starting the wealth journey earlier rather than when they are already very wealthy. So you start with the emerging affluent and then you go through their own wealth journey with them. Then that creates sticky relationship. I also alluded to the fact that we're very focused on long-term growth -- structural growth. That means we look at the customer holistically. We look at how their business families, we look at how we bank them on the business perspective, and then we offer solutions in their family office or their own personal financing based on our knowledge of the wealth creation process through their businesses.

And the continuum also means that it's stickier, right? So you have family members sitting in different parts to continuum. You have RMs also rising through the continuum as their clients also get richer. So that builds for sticky relationships. And then structurally, what we do is we plan for the long term. So that means whether it's setting up estate planning, whether it's life policies, whether it's insurance, whether it's hedging, et cetera, we create long-term sticky solutions so that the customer is really quite sticky with us, and we remain one of the key banks.

And in terms of the segment net new money growth, PB is very chunky. You get one big client in. It can move by the billions. And then when he moves up because you can't do any structures for him or whatever, then it is also chunky both ways in and out. It's steadier for the TPC segment and then it's growing for the treasury segment. I'll let Tse Koon talk about -- give you more color and also about the where the country is.

Thank you, Su Shan. I think Su Shan has covered actually multifaceted approach for us in driving net new money because we bring real solutions to the clients. But just to answer your question as to kind of where it comes from and whether I expect it to at least the same or growth. Now, obviously, we're expecting to grow at the very least, to repeat what we have, which we are quite confident about.

And the reason for that is, as Su Shan alluded to, in the private banking space, they tend to be more chunky. But even within the private banking space, today, our clientele already comes from 120 -- over 120 nationalities. So it's fairly broad-based. And so even if there are customers who kind of have reasons to move some of their assets out, some of them actually do move them out because they might be acquiring a company just for discussion sake, right? And they are injecting capital, but we have a sufficiently robust engine to, I think, replace.

So we have actually seen a pretty good track record of our net new money over the last few years. So there's no reason to believe or to doubt why we can repeat or even grow from that.

Now the other engine that's been growing very, very strongly is actually our Treasures space, as well as also Su Shan has alluded to, that tends to be perhaps at an individual basis, a smaller amount, smaller value, but that tends to be spread across a much larger group of customers.

Now because our wealth continuum has been growing very strongly, we have been able to continuously have our customers resegmented, let's say, even from Singapore's case within Singapore to have our massive retail base of customers start to put more wealth with us because there is emerging growth of wealth in Asia apart from the shift of wealth to Asia. So as Asia gets more and more affluent, actually, we are seeing that benefiting our entire wealth management franchise, not just in Singapore, but also in Hong Kong, in Taiwan, in Indonesia, et cetera, et cetera. So we're seeing quite strong growth in the Treasures space as well.

Over and above that because Singapore and Hong Kong are natural international centers, not just within the private banking space, we are also seeing the affluent base of customers, actually bringing their AUM into both Hong Kong and Singapore as the international centers. So not just domestically but internationally. So it's actually very, very broad-based.

Great. And for the last question, India and Taiwan both have gone through consolidation. ROAs are still low in these markets. Do you see a likelihood of step change in ROA for both India and Taiwan this year? How do we think about that?

Harsh, well, we certainly expect both Taiwan and India to contribute more in terms of net profit this year. They already did very well last year, rising by high double digits, right? I mean Taiwan was up some 40%, India was up some 35% or so. So for Taiwan, for example, the ROE meets the cost of equity already. India not yet. But India, we are refreshing our consumer strategy.

The IBG franchise is really strong. GIFT city is also performing well. And we are getting a lot more CASA from the SME and retail franchise. But we're pivoting to -- on the consumer side, pivoting more to secured loan -- sorry, secured gold loans and reducing dramatically our unsecured loan book there? So I think both are moving in the right trajectory, and Taiwan is already at above cost of equity.

Maybe one data point for you. Actually, on the NPAM basis, Taiwan grew 40% and India grew 35%. So in fact, these are strong franchises for us. They are the 2 markets that actually delivered very high NPAM growth for 2025.

Thanks, Harsh. Next question is from Jayden from Macquarie.

I have two topics I'd like to ask on. The first is on the fixed rate or the hedging portfolio. Last quarter, you gave some very helpful color around the maturity of that portfolio. And it looks like it's moved a little bit higher. What are the maturities looking like for this year? Do you think that there's much impact on that sort of SGD 10 million sensitivity that you outlined before? That's my first question. I'll ask my second one in a bit.

So the maturity that will roll off this year is $80 billion out of the $210 million. And then where we put them on depends on where rates go. As I said, rates are very volatile. But the -- I think the maturing rate is now of the $81 billion, about $3.4 billion. So we estimate to replace half of this at about 2.9% or 50 bps lower.

Okay. And that's already accounted for in the guidance for this year. Is that fair to assume?

Yes.

Okay. And then my next question is just on the comments you made on Indonesia during the media briefing. I think you talked quite a bit about how the current sort of changes are good for the long term and that the corporate portfolio remains strong. How about the wealth portfolio? Do you have any exposure to margin financing against Indonesian securities? Because there's been quite a bit of volatility in that space.

No. We don't have any exposure there in terms of single-stock lending. We tend not to do single-stock lending, precisely for reasons like this. The guy can't sell if he needs to margin call and it's very volatile and then it can be very liquid. So we don't do that. And anyway, our loan book, although it's to only large corporates and blue chips, is actually quite small in Indonesia compared to the rest of the loans elsewhere. So the impact to us is honestly very muted.

And just to check on this topic, Su Shan, does that mean that most of your exposure to say Indonesian wealth clients is actually booked in Singapore, and you don't do much onshore, just to get a better understanding?

We're growing onshore, but the onshore business is very cash based, right? So it's more your mass affluent, your Treasures and Treasures Private Client. They come in with cash, they buy funds, they diversify. So actually, the wealth clients -- the Indonesian wealth clients have been exactly diversifying risk with us, investing globally, both onshore and offshore. Tse Koon can add more color.

Yes, that's correct. So onshore, we have a wealth management franchise, predominantly really in mutual funds, in local government bonds, in bancassurance, et cetera. And those are all kind of cash funded, right? So no lending against that in that sense.

The ultra-high net worth private banking and all that, a number of them would already have offshore wealth from decades ago. Now these are predominantly booked in Singapore and that will be managed just as with any other wealth portfolio at a portfolio basis, right? Meaning to say if any of them have any wealth-related credit lines, they would operate it just as with any wealth customers in a very broad portfolio.

Thanks, Jayden. Next question from Aakash from UBS you can go ahead.

Yes. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay. Great. So I have four questions. The first one is just on the NII guidance. So the net interest income guidance that you have for the year. I'm trying to understand this a bit better. So if you think about the sequential trajectory of the NIM from here, you Jan NIM was 1.92%. Fed cuts are positive. SORA, given it's at 0.9%, it can only go higher towards your 1.25% expectation. So I would think that it's fair to assume that NIM has probably bottomed out and it can only go up from here. And the loan growth, you're expecting around mid-single digits. But despite this, the NII guidance is still down in 2026, is it mainly because of the hedging impact? Is that how we should think about it?

Okay. So yes, I mean, you rightly pointed out, SORA it's currently at 0.9%. Our expectations for the full year was 1.25%. And as I earlier alluded to the first question, it is a very -- it moves so much in today. So it's very hard to use as a benchmark of the real cost of money in Singapore. So we guide people to look at the MAS bills as a more steadier gauge of the cost of money here.

The fixed rate asset repricing is we are assuming that it will be down by 50 bps or so. That's what I alluded to earlier to the earlier question. I don't know whether it Sok Hui or Phil, if you want to amplify anything.

Yes. So Aakash, this is Phil, Corporate Treasurer. So the point about what you're saying is the drivers all seem to be fairly sideways. So why are we guiding NII downwards? I think that's the gist of your question.

So the point to note is that actually Sing rates were high for quite a while in 2025. So what you're seeing is the full-year effect of the low rates. I think that's the way to think about it. The second thing is you can't really look at NIM because as deposits grow and it's put to HQLA, as we said, that's NII accretive, but NIM depletive. So that's the way to think about our book. I think the rest of the numbers we've answered elsewhere in the call. But just to emphasize that the Sing rates were high for quite a few months last year, and now you're seeing the full 12-month effect of a low Sing rate.

So Phil, even if I take this into account, right, so I know your NIMs, let's say, full-year NIM last year was 2.01%. This year is probably going to be 1.92%, 1.93%. If we just keep the NIM flat from here, even then, it's very difficult to come up with NII negative. On your second point, NIM is down, but NII is up. Again, the same question, right? How come NII is down on the guidance? So what is driving it there?

Yes. Maybe I'll just add another data point for your consideration. So deposits grew 12% in 2025. In our assumption, we think it may actually grow like half the rate, and therefore, we don't have as much benefit this year because last year, we have the benefit of treasury bills all flowing back into the Sing dollar book. This year, we don't think that there's going to be so much of a flowback. So that also means that your NII from surplus deposits may not be as high as this year. So that's one factor.

The other factor, when we give guidance on the group NII, is also the market's trading. So markets trading this year had a benefit of about $0.6 billion to NII. That comes from 2 factors. One is really the lower funding cost, which we expect to repeat in 2026. The other factor is the reduced accounting asymmetry, depending on the products that they do, like FX swaps, depending on what type of FX, it caused some noise. So this year, there was a benefit of about $0.3 billion. We don't know whether this will repeat in 2026. So these are the main reasons.

Okay. Understood. The second question I have is Su Shan, on your -- on the topic of AI that you were talking about earlier. I mean, it was reported, DBS generated $1 billion in economic value. I'm just wondering where is the best place to look for this in the financials? Because when I look at the staff cost to assets or if I look at staff cost to deposits, or just staff cost per employee, all these numbers have gone up quite a bit in the last, let's say 3, 4 years. And I'm sure LVB played a role there. Taiwan played a role there. The question is, are you starting to see any reduction in these numbers as DBS gets deeper and deeper into AI investments? And over the next 2 to 3 years, how much of an impact can we expect to see on these, let's say, staff cost to assets or stock cost to deposits? Could they be down by 10 basis points, 5 basis points? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Okay. So you're right. I mean our staff costs went up a lot in the last 3 to 5 years where costs went up by 8% in the last 3 years. And then this year or 2025, we brought it down to 4%. And we are exercising a lot of cost discipline to keep it at 4% or so growth. So where do you find the economic value of AI, right? So the way we have shown the $1 billion, which is the economic value, that doesn't include things like the cost saves or the loss saves, which brings it up to about $1.2 billion. Is the AB testing that we do around rules-based machine learning, right? So that's more deterministic and kind of what I would call classic AI.

It is really harder to measure for generative and Agentic AI. But you will see it very clearly in things like technology and then the front end, RM, productivity, new-to-bank. So I think there are a few levers. I mean there will be things like number of customers per segment, growth of new-to-bank customers, growth of new-to-product customers and then the loading of customers per headcount, whether it's fully front and mid-office or it's customer RM. Its turned around time.

And ultimately, it's going to lead to revenue, productivity and cost income ratio, right? But more importantly, I mean, we don't like to talk about sort of headcount -- big headcount moves, for example, but you will see from the headcount numbers for 2025 that we were certainly very measured in taking out some of the synergies from the LVB and City Taiwan mergers in India and Taiwan, respectively. And so you see quite a lot of the roll-offs of the duplicate roles coming off. You see the roll-off of contract workers. So we are really minding our costs very like a fiend. I mean, I've been really tough on my teammates and they've been tough on their teams as well.

So in terms of the AI capacity, you'll see it, as I said, in tech and ops, most obviously at first, then you will see it in the businesses, whether it's in IBG or CBG Wealth, in enterprise KYCs. So that's turnaround time. We still have a large backlog, right? Everyone complains about how long it takes to open an account these days. And it's good to have a backlog, but it's not good for turnaround time. So we are hoping that the use of AI will just crunch through the turnaround time.

It's already released capacity for us in the middle office, whether it's in ops and tech to do growth stuff, right? So for tech, we really need to grow. We've got 5 big programs. And even though we have 5 big programs in the past, these programs each take 18 months or so to deliver. You've got a big tech that today, that can take weeks or just a couple of months or so. And doing so, you release a lot of the lower-level product engineers, the level 1 engineers, to then upskill and become more like a level 2 engineer or level 3 engineer where there's a lot more built.

And where do we need to build? We need to build for wealth. We need to build for GFM trading. We need to build for a stronger new core banking system. We need to build for credit -- automated credit memo writing. We need to build for risk management, scores, automated, et cetera, KYC. So there's a lot of build to be done, and we want to build with the same sort of capacity that we have.

Okay. Understood. The third question I have is just on the trading income. So you've said that January has gone back to a normalized sort of level. Is that roughly $800 million per quarter level that you're thinking of, which is, I think, the average over the last, let's say, 2, 3 years?

And just on a related note, you said there was a lot of rebalancing that happened in Q4. Could you talk a little bit more about what was this rebalancing exactly? And what sort of views are you taking now? And was there any impact from the silver-gold cash on your books earlier?

So yes, GFM had a good churn. And honestly, the volatility, it's so hard to predict, what used to be weeks or months and not takes hours. And Q4 is always seasonal. So when we said we use it to rebalance the portfolio, it was really to position us for a good 2026. And January's momentum was very strong. Early Feb also not bad. So I'm constructive, but it's notoriously hard to predict for trading. So I don't really want to be shoehorned into giving you any guidance other than when the numbers come out, we can tell you what they were. But I mean treasury sales is good. I think investment banking fees from what I see in the pipeline looks good and decent. We've been winning market share in DCM and ECM, even in markets where we are traditionally not well known in.

I mean, for example, last year, I was really pleased that in DCM, we went up to #7 in the Middle East where we didn't even have any presence the year before. So very strong showing that in terms of the fee growth. And ECM in Hong Kong and in Singapore, we've been really trying to beef up our equity coverage. I always tease my colleagues that we actually have a very big research -- equity research team, but that's kind of like the best kept secret. So we're no longer making it the best kept secret, we're growing it, where we're growing the coverage of the II business, the equity business.

We have a strong book. We have a strong axe where our private clients like to shortfall. So we are long haul, and we can sell that fall out to people like you through all the fund managers and entities who want to buy more. So we can actually create more of an agency business than we've ever done so before. And that speaks well for GFM. You want to...

If I can clarify, Aakash, just to clarify the $800 million per quarter that you mentioned that's for net trading income. When we talk about markets trading. It's the -- you look at the P&L in the front. There's a line for markets trading income, which has net interest income and noninterest income under it.

Okay. And any impact from the huge volatility in the commodities that we saw a couple of weeks ago?

No. So I think if you talk about balancing the portfolio. If you look at our performance summary, if you look at the statement of comprehensive income, you'll see that there were some losses that were crystallized on the investment portfolio, and that's good for us. We bring it to P&L and then this portfolio, which has got lower-yielding instruments will then be free up to be reinvested at higher yields. So that's what we call a rebalancing of the portfolio.

Thanks, Aakash. Well, actually, we don't have any more questions. So okay. thanks, everyone.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to DBS' Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Financial Results Briefing. This morning, we announced for the full year that we achieved record income and profit before tax.

Net profit came in at SGD 11 billion with ROE at 16.2%. For the fourth quarter, net profit was SGD 2.36 billion.

With us today are our CEO, Tan Su Shan; and our CFO, Chng Sok Hui. Without further ado, let me invite Sok Hui to give us more color.

Good morning, everyone, and happy Chinese New Year in advance. Okay, Slide 2. On the highlights, we delivered a strong set of results for full year 2025. Pre-tax profit rose to a new high of SGD 13.1 billion. Return on equity was 16.2% and return on tangible equity was 17.8%.

Total income grew 3% to a record SGD 22.9 billion despite a challenging rate environment. Average SORA and HIBOR both fell by almost 2 percentage points, and there were adverse translation effects from a strong Singapore dollar.

Group net interest income was nonetheless modestly higher, driven by record deposit growth and proactive balance sheet management. Fee income and treasury customer sales both grew double digits and reached new highs, led by Wealth Management.

Markets trading income rose to the highest level since 2021. The cost-to-income ratio was unchanged at 40%. Net profit was 3% lower at SGD 11.0 billion. This was due to higher tax expenses of SGD 400 million from the consequential implementation of the 15% global minimum tax.

For the fourth quarter, pre-tax profit was SGD 2.8 billion, down 6% from a year ago. Total income declined 3% to SGD 5.33 billion as higher fee income and treasury customer sales were offset by the impact of rate headwinds and the absence of non-recurring gains recorded a year ago.

Asset quality remains sound. A previously watchlisted real estate exposure was prudently recognized as an NPL during the quarter, contributing to higher specific allowances. The impact was partially offset by a release of general allowances set aside in prior periods.

Allowance coverage stood at 130% and at 197% after considering collateral. Capital levels stayed strong. The transitional CET1 ratio was 17.0% with a fully phased-in ratio at 15.0%.

The Board proposed a final total dividend of SGD 0.81 per share for the fourth quarter, comprising a SGD 0.66 ordinary dividend, up SGD 0.06 from the previous payout and a SGD 0.15 capital return dividend. The Board remains committed to managing down the stock of excess capital and barring unforeseen circumstances, plans to maintain the SGD 0.15 per share capital return dividend each quarter through 2026 and 2027.

Full year performance. Slide 3. For the full year, total income and pre-tax profit were records. Group net interest income was modestly higher at SGD 14.5 billion, a new high as record deposit growth and proactive hedging offset the impact of rate headwinds. Within this, commercial book net interest income fell 4% or SGD 549 million as net interest margin narrowed due to the rates impact. Fee income rose 18% or SGD 730 million to a record SGD 4.90 billion, led by Wealth Management.

Commercial book, other non-interest income was SGD 2.13 billion. Treasury customer sales to wealth and corporate clients grew 14% to a new high, but the increase was offset by lower other income, which had non-recurring gains a year ago. Markets trading income rose 49% or SGD 452 million to SGD 1.37 billion, the highest since 2021, benefiting from lower funding costs and a more conducive trading environment.

Expenses increased 4% or SGD 354 million to SGD 9.25 billion, led by staff costs. The cost-income ratio was unchanged at 40% and profit before allowances rose 2% or SGD 249 million to a new high of SGD 13.7 billion.

Total allowances were 27% or SGD 169 million higher at SGD 791 million. Specific allowances were SGD 854 million or 19 basis points of loans, largely due to the real estate NPL in the fourth quarter. General allowances of SGD 63 million were written back during the year, including the release of allowances previously set aside for the real estate exposure.

There was a one-time item relating to the bank's CSR commitment announced in 2023 to allocate up to SGD 1 billion over 10 years to support vulnerable communities. With SGD 100 million set aside from the year's profits, the cumulative amount since 2023 for CSR stands at SGD 300 million.

Next slide, fourth quarter year-on-year performance. For the fourth quarter, pre-tax profit was SGD 2.80 billion, 6% lower than a year ago. Group net interest income declined 4%. Within this, commercial book net interest income fell 6% or SGD 239 million to SGD 3.59 billion as net interest margin narrowed due to the rate headwinds.

Fee income rose 14% or SGD 131 million to SGD 1.10 billion, led by Wealth Management. Commercial book other non-interest income was SGD 486 million, within which treasury customer sales rose 13% or SGD 56 million. Expenses declined 1% or SGD 23 million to SGD 2.37 billion. The cost-to-income ratio was stable. Profit before allowances was SGD 2.96 billion, 5% or SGD 151 million lower. Total allowances were unchanged at SGD 209 million as higher specific allowances were offset by a write-back of general allowances.

Next slide, fourth quarter, quarter-on-quarter performance. Compared to the previous quarter, fourth quarter net profit declined 20%. Group net interest income was marginally higher. Within this, commercial book net interest income rose 1% or SGD 34 million as deposit growth momentum was sustained. Deposits increased SGD 16 billion or 3% in constant currency terms, offsetting the impact from lower SORA.

Fee income fell 19% or SGD 258 million and commercial book other non-interest income declined 16% to SGD 92 million due to seasonally lower client activity. Markets trading income fell 65% or SGD 285 million from the previous quarter's high base and seasonal factors. The business also took the opportunity to rebalance the portfolio, which will position us well for 2026. Expenses declined 1% or SGD 21 million to SGD 2.37 billion. Specific allowances were higher, partially offset by a general allowance write-back.

Next slide, net interest income. Compared to the previous quarter, group net interest income was marginally higher at SGD 3.59 billion. Net interest margin declined 3 basis points to 1.93% as SORA continued to trend lower during the quarter. The impact of lower rates was offset by two factors.

First, balance sheet hedges that have been proactively increased over the past few years helped mitigate the decline in net interest margin. Second, deposit growth remains strong. Deposits rose SGD 16 billion or 3% in constant currency terms during the quarter, bringing the full year increase to SGD 64 billion or 12%, the largest absolute increase in the bank's history. The growth outpaced loans and the surplus was deployed into liquid assets. This was accretive to net interest income and return on equity, though it modestly reduced net interest margin.

For the full year, group net interest income was modestly higher at SGD 14.5 billion as balance sheet hedging and deposit growth offset the sharp declines in SORA and HIBOR as well as adverse FX translation from a stronger Singapore dollar. Commercial book net interest income declined 4% from a lower net interest margin.

Next slide, deposits. During the quarter, total deposits rose 3% or SGD 16 billion in constant currency terms, mostly from CASA inflows. CASA, current and savings account increased in both Sing dollars and foreign currencies. Sing dollar CASA rose from seasonal year-end retail inflows and a continued shift of funds from treasury bills back into deposits.

Foreign currency CASA growth was driven by both wealth and corporate clients. For the full year, total deposits grew SGD 64 billion or 12% in constant currency terms, the largest absolute increase in the bank's history with over 2/3 of the increase in CASA.

Liquidity remains healthy. The group's liquidity coverage ratio was 155% and net stable funding ratio was 117%, both comfortably above regulatory requirements.

Next slide, loans. During the quarter, gross loans rose 2% or SGD 10 billion in constant currency terms to SGD 451 billion. The increase was led by trade loans with modest increases in non-trade corporate and Wealth Management loans. As deposits continue to grow faster than loans, the surplus was deployed into liquid assets. This was accretive to net interest income and return on equity.

For the full year, loans rose 6% or SGD 24 billion with broad-based growth across trade, non-trade corporate and Wealth Management loans. And you can see from the chart, the high-quality liquid assets for the year increased by SGD 42 billion.

Fee income, next slide. Gross fee income rose 15% for the full year to a record SGD 5.86 billion. Growth was broad-based and led by Wealth Management, which increased 29% to a new high. Transaction service and loan-related fees also reached record levels, while investment banking fees strengthened. For the fourth quarter, gross fee income rose 12% from a year ago to SGD 1.38 billion. The increase was led by Wealth Management fees.

Transaction service and investment banking fees were also higher. Compared to the previous quarter, gross fee income declined 13%. Wealth Management and loan-related fees fell due to seasonal factors, while transaction service fees were lower compared to a strong third quarter. The declines were partially offset by higher card fees.

Next slide. Wealth Management segment. The Wealth Management segment comprises Treasurers, Private Client and Private Bank. Wealth Management was a key growth driver for the year. Full year segment income rose 9% to SGD 5.68 billion, underpinned by record investment product and bancassurance sales. Assets under management grew 19% in constant currency terms from a year ago to a new high of SGD 488 billion. This quarter, we have started to disclose net new money at the bottom of this slide.

The figures include inflows from Treasures, Treasures Private Client and the Private Bank. Total inflows for the three segments were SGD 12 billion for the fourth quarter, bringing full year inflows to a record SGD 39 billion, 21% higher than 2024. For the fourth quarter, segment income rose 5% from a year ago to SGD 1.30 billion, driven by higher non-interest income from stronger investment products and bancassurance sales. This more than offset a decline in net interest income from lower rates.

Next slide. Customer-driven non-interest income. This slide shows non-interest income from the commercial book that's customer-driven. While fee income and treasury customer sales are recorded under different P&L lines due to accounting treatment, both are driven by consumer and corporate demand for financial solutions and should be viewed together.

For the full year, customer-driven non-interest income rose 16% to SGD 7.04 billion as net fee income rose 18% to SGD 4.90 billion and treasury customer sales grew 14% to SGD 2.14 billion. Both were at new highs, driven by broad-based growth and led by Wealth Management.

For the fourth quarter, growth momentum remains strong. Customer-driven non-interest income rose 13% from a year ago around the average pace over the prior four quarters. The performance reflected our continued efforts to broaden and deepen relationships with wealth, corporate and institutional clients.

Next slide, expenses. Expenses were tightly managed. Full year expenses rose 4% from a year ago to SGD 9.25 billion, led by higher staff costs. The cost-to-income ratio was unchanged at 40%. Fourth quarter expenses were 1% lower, both quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year at SGD 2.37 billion, driven by lower staff cost.

Next slide, Hong Kong. Hong Kong's full year net profit rose 3% in constant currency terms to a record SGD 1.61 billion as total income increased 6% to SGD 3.52 billion, driven by higher non-interest income. Net interest income was 3% higher at SGD 2.09 billion from deposit growth. Net interest margin was slightly higher as the impact of lower HIBOR on the commercial book was offset by an improvement in markets trading. Deposits rose 10%, led by CASA inflows, while loans grew 1%. Surplus deposits were deployed into non-loan assets supporting net interest income.

Net fee income rose 22% to SGD 993 million, led by Wealth Management. Other non-interest income was 7% lower at SGD 441 million as lower markets trading non-interest income was partially offset by higher treasury customer sales. Expenses increased 3% to SGD 1.33 billion from higher staff costs. Total allowances doubled to SGD 296 million, reflecting higher specific allowances largely from the real estate NPL in the fourth quarter.

Next slide, non-performing assets. The NPL ratio was unchanged from the previous quarter at 1.0%, notwithstanding the recognition of the real estate exposure as an NPL in the fourth quarter. The exposure have been on our watchlist for 2 years. The borrower is currently not in default status. We reviewed the credit and took a prudent decision to downgrade it to NPL following our subjective default assessment.

Next slide, specific allowances. Specific allowances for the fourth quarter rose to SGD 415 million with a large part of the increase due to the real estate NPL based on asset recovery values. The increase was partially offset by a release of general allowances that had been previously set aside for the exposure.

For the full year, specific allowances amounted to SGD 845 million or 19 basis points of loans, broadly in line with our through-cycle average.

Next slide, general allowances. As at end of December, total allowance reserves stood at SGD 6.28 billion, comprising SGD 2.42 billion in specific allowance reserves and SGD 3.86 billion in general allowance reserves. The slight decline in GP reserves from the previous quarter was partly due to the release of general allowances previously set aside for the real estate NPL, which were reclassified to specific allowances.

As communicated previously, we set aside GP once the case is placed on the watchlist. In the event that the watchlisted case is classified as NPL, the GP set aside will be released. General allowance reserves remain prudent with the GP overlay at SGD 2.4 billion out of the total SGD 3.86 billion. So to recap, the GP overlay of SGD 2.4 billion is in addition to baseline GP generated by the model, and it takes into account stress scenarios such as heightened geopolitical and macroeconomic risk. Allowance coverage was at 130% and at 197% after considering collateral.

Next slide, capital. The reported CET1 ratio increased 0.1 percentage points from the previous quarter to 17.0%, driven by profit accretion and stable risk-weighted assets. On a fully phased-in basis, the pro forma ratio was 15.0%. The leverage ratio was at 6.2%, more than twice the regulatory minimum of 3%.

Next slide, dividends. The Board proposed a final total dividend of SGD 0.81 per share for the fourth quarter, comprising a SGD 0.66 ordinary dividend, up SGD 0.06 from the previous payout and a SGD 0.15 capital return dividend. This brings the total dividend for the year to SGD 3.06 per share or SGD 8.68 billion, an increase of 38% from the previous year. Assuming dividends are held at SGD 0.81 per quarter, annualized dividends will be SGD 3.24 per share, representing a dividend yield of 5.5% based on last Friday's closing share price.

Next slide. In summary, we delivered record full year pre-tax profit and achieved a 16% ROE, demonstrating the resilience and adaptability of our franchise amidst rate and tax headwinds. Fee income and treasury customer sales reached new highs, led by Wealth Management, while deposit growth was the strongest in the bank's history. While rate pressures and geopolitical tensions are expected to persist, the quality of our franchise and strong balance sheet provide a solid foundation for the year ahead.

Thank you for your attention. I'll now hand you to Su Shan.

Thank you, Sok Hui. So slide, please. So when I look back at 2025, and I think about all the things that we can't control. You can't control geopolitics. You can't control where interest rates go, you can't control where the FX goes or the market goes, and you can't control where tax goes.

So we really had the perfect storm in 2025 in terms of rates, where SORA and HIBOR went in terms of the FX, strong Sing dollar and also our tax rates, as you know, went up. Notwithstanding all these really what we call a perfect storm in the macros, the fact that DBS delivered record group total income, record net -- group net interest income in spite of the rates, record fee income, but more pleasing, record net profit before tax -- sorry, record PBT, profit before tax. But more pleasing for me was the record in volumes. You saw, Sok Hui talked about the record in deposit growth, 12%. I was also very happy to see the record net new money growth, which is structural, record AUM.

And I think this suggests that I think our engines are firing okay, right? So record total income and PBT. I would credit the group net interest income reaching a profit in spite of those headwinds to our teams doing a really good job both on nimble balance sheet management, on also increasing our fixed rate assets that went up to SGD 210 billion. And also all the teams firing on all cylinders on gathering deposit growth.

This, I can attribute to the hard work we've done over the past in using AI, using machine learning, using contextual nudges, all the hard work that we've done to gather new-to-bank customers, to be customer-centric, to have our nudges automated and to use AI smartly. So I think the snowballing effect of volume growth is happening.

In terms of markets, we had the highest markets trading since 2021. Markets trading income rose 49% to SGD 1.37 billion. And because 2025 was such a good year for trading, we decided to take advantage of it and to rebalance our portfolio in the fourth quarter. Fourth quarter normally is down, is seasonal, right? By December, everybody close their books, go on holiday. So fourth quarter is normally quite seasonal.

We are off to a strong start in 2026. January was very good indeed. We saw Wealth Management as well, a record high total income at SGD 5.7 billion. And more pleasing was the Wealth Management's non-interest income, which is the fee income was up 27%. It's strong everywhere.

Offshore wealth, onshore wealth, we saw growth in China, India, Indonesia, Taiwan, and then the two big hubs of Hong Kong and Singapore also, both growing very nicely. We talked about -- Sok Hui has now told us that, we will start sharing the AUM growth for all three segments. It's important for you to understand that DBS has the wealth continuum.

So we look at wealth holistically because we don't believe that wealth is static. We believe that wealth grows. And so you start with the priority bank, which is Treasures. You go up to Treasures Private Client, which is where you become an A accredited investor, you start to invest more. And then you go up to the Private Bank where you get access to more sophisticated products. All that continuum, we really got very seriously. And that's what I think has been our secret sauce in growing our Wealth Management franchise.

So delivering high ROE, that was really structural growth. I think all the structural stuff that we said, be it Wealth Management, be it in IBG, we saw structural growth in TMT, especially around the tech ecosystem. We saw structural growth in the financial institutions group, especially around the institutional equity space.

We saw a recovery in Investment Banking, a long-awaited IPO market finally came back in 2025, both Hong Kong and Singapore are doing remarkably well. But also in payments, I think this is what I was pleased with.

In terms of payments transaction services, so DBS was named the Best Bank for Cash and Corporate Banking in Asia by Coalition Greenwich. Coalition Greenwich is rated by the customers, not by us. You can't pitch for it. The customers rate you. And I think that was validation of the good work done by the GTS and IBG team.

And also pleasing was the record loan-related fees. So this is where we start to win loan structuring mandates, right, as the lead bank. So loan-related fees was up 14% to SGD 733 million. And we really captured growth in the event-driven space. So it's quite a lot of big chunky deals that came in. This is event-driven, LBO, structured deals, M&A, et cetera, and that was up some 59% year-on-year. So I'm pleased to see that we are winning wallet share, mind share and going up the tiers with our clients.

So asset quality remains sound. Our NPL ratio remains stable. As Sok Hui alluded, we did take a subtractive NPL in the fourth quarter. It's important to say that the customer has not defaulted, but we have watchlisted this name for some time now, and we have set aside some GP. So overall, we are comfortable on our exposures. The GP reserve remains sufficient. And just to remind you, the GP reserve, the GP overlay stands at SGD 2.4 billion.

Next slide. And just to recap, again, the ordinary dividend increased by SGD 0.06 to SGD 0.66, capital returns of SGD 0.15 per quarter that will be maintained for this year and next year. And so, with the fourth quarter total dividend of SGD 0.81, we're looking at SGD 3.24 for the year going forward. And of course, being a purpose-driven bank, we want to continue to contribute. We made a 10-year commitment. We will stick to the commitment of SGD 100 million to support vulnerable segments. And we have since given SGD 300 million in contribution since 2023.

Okay. So what's our 2026 outlook? I think it's hard to predict. So I tell all our clients buckle up, it's going to be a volatile year. I mean, first week of January, we have Venezuela. We had Greenland. We had -- and then further down the month, we had Bitcoin, we had dollar diverse -- well, there's dollar movements, Japanese elections, Thai elections. There's a whole host of things. It feels like a year condensed into a month, and people are getting used to such volatility. And because of such volatility, I think our customers will still want to look for stability. They want to look for resilience. They want to look for reliability, and they want to diversify their concentrator exposures, whether it's in currencies, it's in markets or in supply chains. They'll be looking for the safe haven. They'll be looking for dependable long-term partners.

And here, I hope that DBS will continue to be a beneficiary of these global volatile wins, right? We want to be standing out as a safe, long-term dependable and future forward bank.

So what's our outlook? Our outlook for total income will be around 2025 levels in spite of the rate headwinds. And that is because we're assuming SORA of 1.25. So the SORA has come down, as you know, some 200 bps from last year. We're predicting two more rate cuts, and we're predicting the dollar to remain strong.

However, like last year, we are looking for strong growth in deposits. We continue to look for strong growth also in volumes in terms of net new money. We will continue to be nimble. There's the good thing about volatility is you get some -- you have risk, but you also have opportunities. When markets are very volatile, you can trade, you can be nimble, you can also lock in hopefully some good rates during the market falls. So we want to continue to capture this volatility that will give us hedging opportunities and also growth.

Commercial book non-interest income growth to be in high single digits. But for Wealth Management, we are looking for mid-teens growth. So again, continued structural tailwinds continuing for next year. We'll also continue to grow our FIC business, our GFM business, et cetera.

Continuing our cost discipline around costs, mid-single-digit expense growth, so around 4% compared to the last few years of 8%. This is indicative of where we want to go. And SP should be pretty comfortable between 17 to 20 bps. Again, depending on the macroeconomic situation and the geopolitical situation, we might have some room for GP write-backs this year as well.

So for net profit, we're looking at slightly below 2025 levels. But as I said, we will maintain our cost discipline. We will maintain our credit discipline. We will maintain our operational discipline. And all this underpinned by continued work to make our tech resilient through automation and AI, to make our data resilient through focus on cybersecurity and data life cycle management. And most importantly, we will continue to upskill our people. The adoption of AI, the speed of which has been strong. And we can basically free our staff from mundane work, administration work and use AI to upskill them. And this is the work that we are doing right now, which is exciting for us.

So for DBS, looking forward, we want to keep the three moats to stay ahead. What are the three moats? We believe we have a moat in data. We have good precious customer data that we can use as a moat that we got very, very seriously. We have a trust moat. I think we have proven to be a safe bank through thick and thin and trusted and a dependable bank and strong credit ratings. And we have a cultural moat. I think our staff, I'm very proud of our staff's ability to be nimble, to be agile, to work with new technologies and to work with new ways of working. So this enables us to build a long-term firm foundation for growth.

That's it from me.

We're now happy to take questions. [Operator Instructions] First question to Chanya.

Rthvika and I have questions. The first one, given the record high deposit, are you looking to lend it to MAS like what you did in the previous year? Second, any colors on the Hong Kong specific provisions that you said, what do you call it, subjective assessment, but can you give details on -- or colors on that? Third question is on Indonesia. Given the outlook downgrade by Moody's, what do you see in terms of impact and particularly on your loan book? Are you lending more over there? And Rthvika has one question as well.

You mentioned 4Q expenses benefited from lower staff costs. Can you expand a little bit if this leads to headcount reduction and quantify it perhaps? And is this optimization continuing into 2026?

Okay. I mean so, and I can take all the questions together. So certainly, as we gather deposits, deposit growth have been stronger than loan growth. We reinvest the surplus deposits into high-quality HQLAs, right? So it's across the board in different good credit rating -- good credit rated, high-quality assets, government bills, et cetera.

In terms of the Hong Kong SP, we cannot mention names. And you're right, it's subjective, but we are comfortable that -- because, as I said, we reduced our GP to increase our SP. So we were already prudent in the past. So this is, it shouldn't be any surprise to anyone.

In terms of Indonesia, I think this will be good in the long term for Indonesia. Short term, there is some market volatility and some market pain. But I think the long-term implications for increased transparency, governance, increased free float and all that, it's a good thing, right? And the swift action taken by the authorities, I mean, right after the announcement, you saw a lot of announcements coming out from the authorities, I think, is quite commendable.

Our books in Indonesia are pretty focused around the large quality blue-chip names. We've looked at it over and over again, I really don't have too much concerns about the credit quality there. It's not a big exposure anyway. So I think it should be okay.

And then the fourth quarter, lower staff cost, that's because we fully -- there was the LVB integration in India, and then there was the Citi Taiwan integration. So post integration, we have a lot of dual jobs that were rolling off, right? So that was -- a big chunk of that was the rolling off of the post-integration synergies from the two countries.

Looking forward, I know where your question is going. I do think that AI, whether it's generative agentic or just traditional machine learning type of AI will change the way white-collar jobs. This is the world. It's not DBS alone or Singapore or Hong Kong or Asia alone. It's the world. But companies that embrace this new technology embrace it and look to use it to your advantage. That means human and machine interaction is important.

How do you train humans to work with machines? How do you train humans to use agents safely, but also to use it to increase your capacity to move them to higher order roles? Frankly, I'm excited. So the work that we are doing right now is precisely that to retrain, whether it's our engineers, our RMs, our call center people, our operations people, everybody, everybody in DBS is trying to adapt to this new way of working, which we want people to feel safe to learn and to use this new capacity, this new superpower that you now have to do a higher order role.

You want to, Sok Hui?

I think the only thing I would add is that fourth quarter, I think our results were not so good compared to third quarter. So you should expect that we accrue less bonus. So it's a natural effect of a drop in staff costs as well.

Anyone else have a question?

So congratulations Su Shan and Sok Hui on the strong and credible set of results, especially with the perfect storm you mentioned. Looking at the year, the different segments have carried the bank differently, retail funding, corporate lending, wealth advisory and distribution and treasury flows, each contributing their own way.

Do you see DBS is getting through a transition in your earning model? Or this is already the new shape of the business? And within that, how do you see the role of the retail franchise here in Singapore and Hong Kong? And how has that changed in our mind? And what changes in customer behavior stood out for you in the year? That's first question.

Second question is, with the RMB clearing role only now starting, how does it actually add to your existing transaction or treasury businesses? Does it deepen operating balances and client mandates? Or is it mainly to improve settlement efficiency for flow you already handle? How do you intend to scale that?

You mentioned about AI. How is AI changing the business or how the bank is run in the efficiency or decision being made, revenue being generated? Do you have like a data value capture equivalent for AI?

A lot of very big questions, all of them. So to your first question, which is basically, do I see this as a new shape of DBS' business? Look, I think that we are in two big financial hubs, right, Hong Kong and Singapore. And as long as deposit growth continues to be strong, these are two big financial hubs. So Hong Kong benefits from southbound flows from China. Singapore benefits from global flows as well. So both these flows are structurally good for us.

If deposit growth continues to be stronger than loan growth, then we will continue to deploy them in HQLA. That's just the trend that we're seeing. In terms of, is there a new shape? So we think it's going to continue to be a bit of a K-shaped economy. So unfortunately, the strong will get stronger. Some of the SMEs are still seeing some stress in the system. There are some segments particularly suffering more than others. And they might need more help from governments, et cetera.

Then in our other core markets, we have structural strong growth in India. That will continue a pace. China looks to be in recovery. Indonesia has some short-term challenges. But again, structurally, long term, we remain constructive on Indonesia in the long term. Taiwan has been a fantastic growth story and will continue a pace because of the tech hardware as well as the onshore wealth growth. And they are also promoting onshore wealth management.

So there are structural tailwinds, which we want to harness. There will be headwinds in terms of markets and rates and FX, we just had to maneuver and manage. And we have to be aware of the K-shaped kind of economy and reduce risk where we think there are still credit headwinds in some segments.

Your second question around the RMB clearing role, yes, we were -- we announced it in December. We think that the role of RMB has risen as a trading currency, as an investment currency, and that will continue. So yes, there will be mandates to be won. The team is working very hard to do it. The dollar dominance will still be -- I mean, dollar is still 80% of the world's trade financing is still cleared in dollars. But RMB, euro, people want to diversify and those who trade with China may want to use RMB as a currency for trade. But as the world also diversifies and if people want to invest in RMB or they want to use it as a payment currency, I think that trend will also be there.

And then AI changing -- changes to the business, I can share that we call it Operating Model Transformation, OMT for short. And here, we have different OMTs in the bank. Examples would be KYC, credit memo writing. So Kwee Juan, who's our IBG head together with Kian Tiong, our credit head, their teams have worked together to create an OMT around credit memo writing, and the AI can really help to shorten that whole process.

Wealth management and retail, Tse Koon and the team also have several OMTs. Our COO office has done an OMT around operations. So using more of the chatbot to answer queries. And so there's -- we've got quite a few different OMTs, as you will. But since the advance of generative AI, we already rolled it out, and we said there are horizontal use cases, which all in country can use the DBS GPT, which we rolled out middle of last year. The first rollout, not so good. But after that, it got better and better and better. And we are seeing already people using it for myriad things from translation to what are your policies and procedures to how do I answer queries internally, externally, et cetera.

So I think quite good usage, 60-over percent using it very actively. With the rise of agents, Agentic AI, we have also come up with our own framework to make sure that it's safe. We have guardrails around the use of personal agents, team agents, enterprise agents, et cetera.

As for the DVC, traditionally -- when we were using machine learning AI models, which are more deterministic and rules based, we use A/B testing to derive the economic value, right, whether it's real revenue growth, cost base or loss base. But when you have -- whether it's Agentic AI, Generative AI or others to supplement what we do, I think it will be harder to separate it out, because everyone is going to be using it. So we'll have to rethink how do we do a deliver a DVC, as you said. We haven't landed. We might still try to capture the economic value based on what we've been doing in the past, which is A/B testing.

But I suspect there will be a lot more in terms of capacity building and speed of the resolution of tech debt, for example, what used to take months, many months, years can now take weeks, right, for example. And that time save, we can deploy to newer things to grow, because we still need to grow. The team needs to grow on wealth. We need to grow on trading. We need to grow on financial institutions, on tech, on GTS, payments. There's so much growth that we need to build. But I think what excites us is the ability to use what we can harness from capacity to then redeploy for growth.

Can I have a follow-up question just on your K-shaped economy growth going forward? How are you tackling the kind of the lower trajectory growth area? Are you derisking those areas, repricing those areas? And those are segments as well as geographies?

Yes. So we've been always very supportive of our SME and SME plans, and we'll continue to be supportive. What we do is we do constant stress test. I mean, since COVID, I think this whole stress testing we've been second nature to us. And we try to stay ahead of these trends so that we can actually proactively identify the weak cases and help them through it. You can help them. You can do M&A, you can give them for warning to reduce risk, et cetera. We have certainly in our portfolio reduced risk in, for example, the consumer side, the unsecured loan space. And we've been very thoughtful in our SME space as well.

Ngui from Reuters.

Just a follow-up on Indonesia. How do you kind of plan to navigate the near-term headwinds despite the longer-term outlook?

Well, as I said, we have been looking at our book. And we -- I don't think there should be any panic. I think, as I said, I do believe that structurally, this is good for Indonesia in the long term. And Indonesia is a very resilient country. They've been through a lot of ups and downs, but the fundamentals of the country in terms of resourcing, in terms of their ambition to adopt AI, their ability to be resilient will still be there. As I said, I don't think our exposure is too large. We are very focused on the quality names as well. So in the short term, I'm not too worried. In the long term, I see this as a net positive.

But Kwee Juan, my IBG head is here, you want to supplement anything?

Yes. So I think for as Su Shan said, for Indonesia, right now, we are continuing to support the larger clients there. And what you see in terms of the market volatility relates to the market, whereas we lend to the operating company that are generating the cash flows, so the day-to-day is not affected by the market. And so, I think that's the differentiation that we need to see. And as Su Shan said, the overall improvement in the way the market is going to be mobile managed, it's a plus for the market itself.

Any other questions? Okay. Goola?

Anyway, congratulations for the results. It was a tough year. But I'm just wondering, you said that you want to deploy the surplus deposits into HQLA, and you mentioned that a couple of times. But is there no loan growth? I mean, because ideally, you should have put it into loan growth. That's one question.

And second question is on the types of HQLA, the sovereigns and how can that be NII accretive? That's the other question.

And then, of course, for NIM, what was your exit NIM? How do you see NIM developing into 2026? And has your NIM sensitivity dropped because of the way you manage your book?

Okay. I'll take the first, and then you can take the second. So I want to address the question on loan growth. We are still forecasting loan growth to grow by mid-single digits. So it's not like we're not seeing loan growth, we are. And as I said earlier on, we are actually structuring a lot of deals. So frankly, as rates come down, the deals will start to come in, right? January was indicative of -- if any January is indicative of the year, we're very busy on large corporate loan growth. We see growth also in other areas, even mortgages, the new mortgages coming through the door also saw steady growth. So it's not like we're not seeing loan growth. We are -- just that deposit growth was so high, right? It's higher than the actual loan growth has been quite steady at, say, 5%, 6%, whatever percent, right? So this keeps growing, but deposit growth has been stronger. That's why there's a delta.

You want to address for NIM?

Yes. So deposits, we can generally deploy deposits that come in on an average about 1 percentage point NIM. So that's not an issue. You can also write the yield curve, take a view if the rates are constructive. So putting into HQLA, frankly, is good because the ROE is very high, and we only put into mainly sovereigns. So it's not that we are taking big risk running any HQLA portfolio. So you can see it in our Pillar 3 disclosures.

On the question about NIM, our fourth quarter NIM was 1.93%. Our January NIM is of 1.92%, so it's been fairly stable at the group NIM level. And sensitivity actually -- has actually increased for Sing dollars, because as more and more deposits come in, there's more sensitivity to the SORA, which is a good thing. If rates go up, you benefit more.

Have the deposits been coming in, in Sing dollars more than U.S. dollars?

It's a mix. You can see the data point. I think we disclosed it as well. Sing dollar CASA, you can see grew SGD 28 billion this year. Foreign currency CASA grew SGD 19 billion. These are the chunks of deposits that came in and FDs grew SGD 17 billion. So very strong growth in the deposits.

So one last question on this HQLA. So does the USD go into U.S. sovereigns? And does the Sing dollar deposits go into Singapore government securities?

No, no, it doesn't work like that. We can -- through, sort of, cross-currency swaps and all that, we will manage to the overall margin level that is actually the best for the book.

No, we try to optimize.

Okay. And then the other concern was your foreign exchange.

We have no -- we don't take FX exposure. It's all hedged out. So just be assured, we have a good machinery to do hedging.

Russell, Asian Bank.

Congratulations again on the record results. My question is mainly on IBG with the AI-driven investment up cycle and as well as electronics rebound, the intra-Asian growth as well as trades outside of U.S. and export, import, et cetera. Did you notice or did you see any sort of particular areas that you would like to strengthen your position in for IBG and outside of the RMB clearance?

Okay. I will start and then Kwee Juan, if you want to supplement. So yes, I mentioned that for IBG, there's some structural tailwinds in both TMT, which is tech, data centers, the whole AI growth in AI, CapEx, but also in financial institutions and II as people are putting more money to work in capital markets, the capital markets growth, insurance growth, all that's structural, right? And that will continue. And as money flows into the Asian markets, that structural trend will also continue.

In terms of trade outside the U.S., you're right, we -- our economist calls it TOTUS, right, T-O-T-U-S. And that figure has grown certainly since Liberation Day last April. What we are seeing is more intra-regional trade in Asia. We see trade between North Asia and ASEAN, so North and South Asia, North Asia and India, intra-regional trade. We see more trade between the GCC and Asia, GCC and China. That trend seems to be continuing as well. And a lot more cooperation. So whether it's like the Queen Bee programs to Singapore, Kwee Juan has been helping leading Queen Bee's big MNCs bringing the SME or midsized companies as an ecosystem to hunt in the pack in other markets, that continues.

And as people diversify their supply chains, Kwee Juan calls it international supply chains, I think we will see continued opportunities there in the long term.

Kwee Juan, you want to supplement?

Yes. So I think on the AI piece, a lot of it is around the ecosystem financing. This is short-dated financing of 30 to 60 days for a lot of your suppliers into the ecosystem for AI. So as data centers get built out, you're going to see them stuff up on other equipment. So we do see GPU as a service now becoming an area of interest for a lot of our customers.

And also, at the same time, with the semiconductor, CapEx now also going up, because each of these servers require different kind of semiconductors, and that is something that we are seeing some level of activity. So all these are driven by the broader climate of data center and AI being the core for capability that people are building out too.

Maybe we have time for one last question if anyone has. Okay, if not then I think we can draw this time a close. Thank you everyone for your time and we'll see you next quarter. Thank you.

Hi, everyone. So welcome to the 3Q results call. You've heard the media, so we'll go straight to Q&A. [Operator Instructions]

[Operator Instructions] So first question from Jayden from Macquarie.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

Great. I appreciate it. A couple of questions. Media call, you were fairly upbeat, Su Shan, I think on the outlook for demand for loans. Just any thoughts on sort of what's changed versus prior quarters? Any commentary you can give us in terms of industry or geography.

My second question is on the NIM and the sensitivity. Can you provide us with any sort of updates as last quarter, you gave us very helpful sensitivity on how the NIM would perform with respect to various base rates. Those are the 2 questions I wanted to ask.

Okay. So let me walk you through the non-trade loan growth expectations. Like this year, we're looking at nontrade loans to grow in the mid-single digits next year. And structural growth, you see it in tech data centers, et cetera. So TMT will remain strong. Real estate, there's quite a lot of government-led sales still in Singapore. There's quite a lot of big government projects as well here. And so the public sector and I guess, real estate in selected cities, Singapore, possibly Australia, London, we will see some good momentum. And alongside -- I talked about TMT, alongside the whole GenAI adoption as well, we're seeing some structural growth there.

In energy, although there seemed to be, at least from the headlines a rollback in renewables, actually, we are seeing in Asia still a lot of deal flow, M&A buyouts and transactions in the renewable space. And as rates come down, I think the LBO market will come back, and that should also see some growth there.

In food and agri as well, you're looking at sort of inventory financing for some of the big guys as well. Housing loans, mortgages, we also had -- we had a good Q3 this quarter on new launches. So that should filter in next year. And also, I think for wealth, as rates come down, there should also be some of these wealth loan growth as well. Do you want to add anything, Kwee Juan? Kwee Juan is our Head of Corporate and Institutional Banking.

No, I think it's largely in that area. The TMT ERI areas for us next year looking at pipeline.

Okay. Then you want to talk about the NIM sensitivity, right? So we have net floating assets of about 11 -- sorry, $110 billion. So if rates come down by every 1 basis point, we will lose $11 billion there. And then we have $160 billion of net floating assets -- sorry, the other way around. We have $110 billion of net -- oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. We have $160 billion of net floating assets.

So for every 1 basis point drop, we will lose $16 million, this is for next year. And we have $50 billion net floating liabilities. So for every 1 basis point, we will lose $5 million. So plus -- so 16 -- so it's minus $16 million plus $5 million. Sorry, for this year -- I didn't tell you for this year, right? So for this year, it's $120 billion net floating assets and $50 billion net floating liabilities. So it's plus [ $12 million ], minus [ $5 million ]. So [ $12 million ], yes.

Next question is from Yong Hong from Citi.

I have 3 questions. The first question is on deposits, a strong growth quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year. Just wondering where the source of money is coming from? And if they are corporate or are they consumer monies or these are -- both of these are also driver?

And a follow-up to that is, given that we are in a position of excess liquidity, what are your thoughts of managing down cost of funding more aggressively, maybe even lower than the 1% Sing dollar FD rates that we are seeing. I have 2 more questions after this.

Okay. So the deposit growth was actually quite wide. We had from the retail side, quite a lot also because the treasury bills matured and they came back. We had SME deposit loan growth. We had wealth loan growth. We had corporates as well with a fair amount of -- so it was quite widely spread and across Sing and foreign currencies.

So also helped, I guess, in Singapore, we have the CDC vouchers, right? So people were spending a little bit less in Singapore. So that also meant some more sing dollar CASA retention as well.

Yes. And given the position of excess equity, any thoughts of managing down your cost of funding more aggressively, maybe even lower than the 1% Sing dollar FD rates that we are seeing right now.

Yes. This is Phil here, Corporate Treasurer. So if you look at our deposit margins, they are basically above 1%. So we don't have any need to cut back on deposits. In fact, this is a very good deployment for us. As all the wealth deposits come in, the GTS deposits come in, we can put it to work, and we can make a very good margin on that.

Yes. Because what the treasurer -- we are always open for deposits, right? The fact is philosophically, you must always bring in deposits, and we can always reinvest and HQLA is a good high ROE, decent NIM spread.

Yes. No, maybe the context of my question is given the deposits growth is so strong, I don't think they are coming in for that 1% kind of deposits rate. So based on that your deposits coming in, do you see any room to manage down your cost of funds, especially if you think that the deposits coming in are not going after the rates?

The rates are very low, right?

Yes. No, we actually make sure that we always have a positive deployment margin on all our deposits. So if you look at our FD rates versus MAS bills, for example, we would always make a spread on that. Now the NIM might get diluted because the marginal deposits versus the marginal deployment will be less than our current average NIM. So you get a NIM dilution, but it's ROE accretive and it's NI accretive.

Yes. Yes, I understand.

Deposit cost is already down 20 bps Q-on-Q.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And maybe just moving on to AUM. Any breakdown on the net new money and the market impact? And any color on where this net new money is coming from, how sustainable that is and whether that is a result of natural flows into Singapore? Or is there something that we have done in recent years that is yielding results?

Okay. So when we talked about the net new money, that was only at the high end, but we should include -- if you include treasures and above, then the growth was actually stronger. So for the total wealth stack, which is treasures, TPC and PB, AUM grew 7% (sic) [ 6% ] quarter-on-quarter, 18% year-on-year to $474 million. That's really across the board.

As we said earlier on, we have wealth centers in pretty much most of our core markets, right? So Singapore, Hong Kong being the 2 big onshore/offshore hub. China, we have a new wealth hub as well. India, where we're also trying to focus now more on wealth. Taiwan, after we bought Citi, it's a strong mature wealth business in Taiwan. And Indonesia, onshore wealth also is growing.

So it's across the board. But Hong Kong is seeing very good flows from Greater China, Hong Kong area. And China onshore is also seeing very good flows because I think we were not involved in the whole trust debacle in the last few years. So we have a good reputation there. We talked about the need for insurance and life planning by the Chinese -- Mainland Chinese. We talked about Stock Connect. We're able to give them good wealth management products and solutions, SIPs, et cetera. So there's good organic growth there. Su Koon is here, he can weigh in.

Yes. I think just in line with what Su Shan has said, generally, the wealth growth has been very robust and very well spread, right? So first thing, we benefited from the fact that -- and we continue to benefit from the fact that we have a full wealth continuum. In other words, we are able to bank customers whether from their first 1,000 to their first 100,000 to their first million, even to those with billions with us.

So I think we are one of the few that have the full continuum of wealth from private bank ultra-high net worth to those kind of almost emerging to private bank right into the affluent, even right into the retail wealth. We have also been able to connect internationally very well. So customers who use us to manage their wealth, both onshore and offshore, right? And our wealth management customers come from more than 120 nationalities. So being anchored in Asia with 2 booking centers in Singapore and Hong Kong, that's been very, very strong. Our full suite of products and services, some of which Su Shan has alluded to, is very, very comprehensive. So these have actually been a key contributor to how we have been able to deepen and broaden our wealth franchise.

And my final question is on dividends. The $0.15 extra quarterly dividends per year. I think based on the latest guidance, that will expire by year-end. And the guidance is that a similar quantum would be.

No, no, no. Sorry. That's not correct. So who is that?

Yong Hong, you're referring 15 -- the capital return dividend. So the capital return distribution we talked about lasting for 3 years until the end of 2027. So the $0.15 that amount is per quarter goes on until the end of 2027.

Okay. Okay. I think previously -- originally it was a similar quantum.

We said it was $8 billion, $3 billion for share buyback, $5 billion for 3 years of the $0.15 step-up. So $0.15 times 4 or $0.60, $0.60 times 2.84 is $1.7, right? So $1.7x 3 years is 5.1. So that $5 billion goes is returned over 3 years.

Okay. Good that this is of...

Ordinary dividend is a different category from capital return dividend. So don't be confused.

Yes, clear on that. Yes. Okay. No, I was just wondering whether this $0.15 could be returned in a different form, but I think that is clear from Su Shan. And on buyback, if the share price continues to be quite strong, can we be flexible to allocate the capital for buyback to do something else? Or that should be reserved for a certain period of market downturn?

I think we always assess the opportunity, and we said we'll do over 2 to 3 years. So if by the end of 3 years, we have not fully bought back the shares, we could always think of other ways to return the capital.

Okay. Got it. And I think -- and the general mechanism is that should not exit the trailing 30-day [indiscernible] or something of the buyback. Is there any general or just not disclosed before? No. We just said we'd be opportunistic.

Thanks. Next question from Harsh from JPMorgan.

Got few more questions on the payout and buyback. So how do you see the trade-off between a program buyback that every day, irrespective of price at VWAP or something, you do consistent buyback versus trying to be opportunistic. So what has been the discussions? And how do you see -- what I'm trying to get to is, is there a possibility to move to a program buyback? Or do we stay with the current stance?

So we are not in the camp of doing program buyback every day, whatever the price, but we do have an alignment on how we'll go about doing it. We look at standard deviation of the price, and it's a bit higher, more than one standard deviation over a period, then we'll do less. If it's like much lower, we'll do a lot more. So I think we calibrated it that way internally, and that's how we have been running this program.

Sorry, I got muted. Yes. But then the problem with doing a buyback in an opportunistic basis is the daily trading volumes. During down days, can the buyback amount be half of the daily trading volumes. Otherwise...

We also have an internal rule that in general, we will not exceed 10% of the daily turnover on the exchange.

Exactly. If that's the case, then if the weakness lasts for, let's say, 3, 4, 5 days, then you can't use up this entire amount if you are just opportunistic.

But we have 3 years, right?

Yes. But it is still -- again, if I look at the YTD performance and if the stock continues to do well, which we all hope it does, then there is this question on can you really use that buyback. So either you have to tweak that rule of 10% that during down days, you can go as high as 30%, 40%, 50% of volumes, if need be, or you need to do program buyback. Otherwise, this buyback amount becomes a bit question mark.

We'll take that back. I think we have been discussing this at the Board level. And this whole VWAP program buying, every investment bank wants to do that because our stock is liquid, right? God knows what they do with it behind the scene, right? So I think it's just a bit more prudent that we have -- we keep the option to exercise more discretion on coming in on bad days because the market will be volatile next year, right? And we want to be able to have that flexibility.

And I understand that, Su Shan.

We hear you on the 10% and we'll take it away.

The risk if things become -- remain too good. And second question on NIM. Thanks for a very detailed guidance on your assumptions on rate cuts, fee rate cuts, flat SORA sing dollar appreciation makes sense. But let's say, if out of blue, if we end up getting, let's say, USD rally in that case, some of these assumptions on the SORA pass-through and sing dollar appreciation may not materialize. So how are you looking at adjusting your hedging strategy in that scenario? And what are the various pros and cons if that ends up happening?

So your question is, just so I get it right, the Sing does not appreciate, it depreciates instead of appreciates, right?

Yes. And that may be just because dollar goes up, right? Because this year dollar was down massively. Yes.

Okay. Okay. And U.S. rates.

Still same, let's say, rate cuts because the dollar depreciation this year was largely due to risk premium increase, right? And for whatever reason, the risk premium dollar decreases despite the rate cut, we end up getting dollar value, which we are starting to get now. Dollar is up 3%, 4% from the lows. So that's the question that in case of an outcome, which is different from your base case assumption, how do we think about impact on NIM? And how is the bank preparing for that eventuality?

A weak Sing is always good for us when we report because we have a fair amount of U.S. dollar income and Hong Kong dollar income and non-Sing income. So honestly, a weaker Sing is not a bad thing for us at all, in fact we like it. And so you're thinking -- in the past, when you have a weak Sing, you actually have higher Sing rates because of the forwards, right? That seems to have broken down now, Harsh. So we've taken to checking the MAS bills as a guidance on Sing rates because SORA overnight SORA is also too volatile, very hard to predict, right, up and down 40%, sometimes overnight. So it's very hard to use that as a gauge of the real cost of money in Singapore. So we use the MAS bills instead. And so if you think the Sing dollar depreciates, I don't think Sing rates can collapse, right? So it should, if anything, go up from here. So then if you have higher Sing dollar rates and lowering Sing that's both a double tailwind for us.

Right. So net-net.

I hope, that comes true. I think we are forecasting the reverse.

No, that 100% agree. So that's on your commercial book, you'll make more money maker than SORA kind of stays steady and Sing dollar depreciates, so translation gains get. And -- but then is there any risk on the hedging book that we should worry about? Or it is basically wash either direction?

There shouldn't be any risk on our hedging book because we put -- it's a dynamic book, right? We put it on every year, things roll off, things get put on. We haven't really been able to put on quite a lot yet because the yield curve is not in our favor. So it's a dynamic hedge. So we'll see next year, if what you say comes true, we might hedge more, right?

And I think we have shifted a lot of the hedging more to U.S. dollars because Sing dollars are not attractive to hedge at these levels. So as they roll off, our hedges have been more in the U.S. dollar category.

Right. And sorry, the last question on this is the hedges rolling over. So basically, you have a very good track record of being able to replenish those hedges which are rolling over. So we should assume something similar going forward? Is that what's baked in your guidance for NIM and NII next year that the bank will be able to catch these waves quite well over the next 3, 4 quarters? Or the -- or have you lengthened the hedge duration so that you have visibility.

Okay. So Harsh, next year, we have $78 billion of fixed rate asset maturities. The maturing rate was 3.3%. And we are looking to do 2/3 of that to be replaced.

Got it. Yes, if I may ask just one last question. This is on wealth management. Net new money growth this year, if you could give some granular details on which countries residents, is it more North Asia? Is it more South Asia? Any particular market, that will be very useful.

Thanks for the question. This is Koon here. Our net new money has been very, very strong. I think it has been for the last couple of years. And actually, as we dive deeper in, it's actually very, very broad-based. It's across various markets. So just as an indication, the private banking customer base comes from more than 120 nationalities, right?

So we have 2 booking centers in Hong Kong and in Singapore, we're agnostic. It depends on where the customers choose to book. Some of them have bookings in both, but they are very, very broad-based, right? We have customers from Southeast Asia, of course, being here in this part of the world. We have customers from Northeast Asia. We have customers from South Asia. We have customers from the Middle East, we have customers from Europe, both Western and Eastern Europe. So very, very broad based.

But this year, has there been any particular market which has seen a faster pickup in net new money growth compared to, let's say, last year?

No. Not -- I can't single out any market in particular. And at the same time, just also to elaborate a little bit further. Our net new money, the growth has been very, very robust through the entire wealth continuum, that has got both the private banking clients, the high net worth and ultra-high net worth as well as in our segment we call Treasures, which is the affluent customer base. And it's the same trend we've seen. It's very, very broad-based.

Next question from Aakash from UBS.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

This is Aakash from UBS. The first question is just on the NIM decline this quarter. I wanted to understand a bit better. Because in July, the exit NIM was 1.95% and -- so which was already down 10 basis points from the previous quarter average level, right? And then after July, we had 4% deposit growth, which were parked into HQLA, which are NIM dilutive. And loan growth was much smaller. So a majority of it went into HQLA. And then we also had further SORA declines, SORA overnight rate declines in August and September. How did none of these -- any of these affect the NIM? How did NIM stay at 1.96% for the whole quarter? That's the first question.

Okay. Because -- so you're looking at the quarter, why did it stay so flat when SORA overnight went down so much, right?

Yes. And HQLA as well, Su Shan, because HQLA would be NIM dilutive.

Okay. So 2 main reasons. The first is the group NIM declined less than the commercial book NIM because the market trading book because of the lower accounting asymmetry, our cost of funds also was lower. There was some cushion back from that. And there was also a rebound in HIBOR as well. So that also helped the overall NIM for Q3. And there was also IRS and fixed rate asset deployment as well, which was about 1/3 of the commercial book assets. Do you want to add anything, Sok Hui?

I think you're right. Your observation is right. So I think with the commercial book, we gave you guidance last round, right, that in July, it will be about 1.95% and we have been able to hold it. And that's partly reflecting that market trading has also helped to cushion the pressure.

Okay. Okay. Got it. Then the second one is I also wanted to understand the hedges a little bit better because I think your NII guidance for next year, which is slightly down -- if -- I think people expect that if hedges are going to roll off next year, this guidance does look a bit more optimistic. So to have a high level of confidence, I think if you can share more details on the hedging book, the IRS swaps that you have, right? Because we only see annual numbers. So we know it was [indiscernible] (025:42) 59 billion at the end of 2024. What is that number today? And what is the breakup between the different tenures? And how much of it is expiring next year? If you can share that information, I think that will be very helpful.

Okay. Aakash, this is Phil, Corporate Treasurer. So I'll just give you a couple of data points. So we've got about -- we don't look at IRS and bonds separately. When we talk about the hedges, we're talking about both the funded and the unfunded hedges collectively. So when we've given you that $200 billion of assets -- fixed rate assets, that's the totality across bonds IRS, right? So that number is about there still. So of that, about $78 billion rolls off next year. And we actually have assumed and it's consistent with the assumption Su Shan just gave that we're probably going to redeploy that at about 50 basis points lower than the maturing yield that those particular assets have. So it's built into the forecast, and it's all consistent with all the guidance that Su Shan has rearticulated.

So This $78 billion is primarily the fixed rate mortgage book? Or is it the IRS swap?

It's a mixture. It's the IRS. It's got the mortgages because remember, mortgages in Singapore are not long dated, unlike, say, in the U.S., right? In the U.S., you take long-dated mortgages and you sit on it. In Singapore, typically, it's 2 years. So the average weighted life of a mortgage is actually only 1 year, if you think about it, right? So the mortgage book does roll off. The IRSs do roll off. But the numbers I've given you incorporate all those effects roll together.

So you should think about the NII as having a few components, right? Floating rates will also come off. Fixed rate hedges will also come off, but we will also benefit from the deposit volumes that we have told you about all the deposits that come in, we can deploy at slightly more than 1%, and that's going to cushion the effects of the lower rates.

And I think if you look at the treasury book, I think the funding cost will go down quite a bit with the rate cuts. So that's another relief from the headwinds in the commercial book. So net-net, as a package when we say slightly down, we're not saying like a little -- I mean it's like point something like [ $0.2 billion ], $0.3 billion, $0.4 billion down, that kind of number.

Okay. Understood. The third question is just on broadly liquidity. And Su Shan, I heard your interview with Nicolas on the podcast yesterday, very interesting, very inspiring. I think one of the comments that you made was liquidity in general has helped financial assets everywhere, right? Now some of that liquidity also found its way to Singapore and must have helped with the wealth management net new money that DBS has seen. I just wanted to get your thoughts on how do you think about this inflow? What part of it is cyclical? What part of it is structural? Would you extrapolate this net new money strength into the coming years? Or do you think maybe it can normalize this pace of net new money that you've been seeing?

Well, I look at M2 and I look at the market cap of different markets, and I try to find where when the money flows might go next. And it's interesting because Hong Kong, China have been very strong performing indices this year, but a lot of the U.S. flows have stayed in the U.S. and the money -- the wealth creation has stayed primarily in the U.S., right? When you think about the U.S., it is now 70% of the world's global capital markets, it's very concentrated. So the wealth creation and the wealth effect in the U.S. is very real. Money supply and the banking deregulation in the U.S. is going to be helpful.

And so yes, I see liquidity remaining strong. Do I see it coming to Asia? I see liquidity certainly in China and Hong Kong because China rates are so low. No one's buying real estate. So the money is going to go somewhere. And then that's why you see very strong growth in things like banker, insurance, life policies and as people get more and more sophisticated as well. And people are starting younger, right? You have the Robin Hood phenomenon where younger people in their 20s, early 30s starting to invest as well, which is why we're building this digital wealth for retail as an offshoot of our current more mature wealth business. The team has rolled out digital wealth products online for -- precisely to meet the needs of the young 20-something year-old millennial or Gen Z investor.

So I see North Asia liquidity remain pretty robust. Singapore depends whether we have more Sing dollar assets to absorb the M2. There's some government land sales. There's some government projects. There's new launches of property. The stock market is getting better. So let's see. I hope the liquidity in Sing dollars gets recycled. I think people are trying to build a private assets ecosystem in Asia as well. There's been private equity deals, certainly in Japan and some nascent venture and all that in China because of the AI and humanoid robots boom that we're seeing.

So we see some interesting flows. There's a bit of the formal flow now back into China because the market has done so well. So I see that happening. But I don't know -- like every other of my peers, I do worry about the high valuations in the U.S. on these AI companies. We're very cognizant of not being caught up -- too caught up in that. But whilst we invest in AI ourselves, we're also cautious about the high valuations that we see.

Yes, I think North Asia liquidity remain good. South, Southeast Asia, yes, large corporates are doing okay. The midsized SMEs are doing less okay. And people are saving more and spending less. But if they can recycle those assets, as I said, into the stock markets, into REITs, into more real assets, then hopefully, that sort of domino effect that the velocity of money picks up. The problem is the velocity of money hasn't been very high in Asia, right? That's the problem.

We'll move on to Melissa from Goldman.

Just back on this that you're talking about liquidity and North Asia being a better area in terms of the liquidity. Do you think then in terms of DBS, the net new money coming in and also your deposit growth that you have been seeing can still be sustained from this year to the next? Also, you mentioned...

Melissa, we're now #4 in Hong Kong, yes. We're the fourth largest bank in Hong Kong. So we've been doing very well in Hong Kong wealth. Our wealth centers in Queens Road Central and all that are doing well, and we are also growing in China onshore wealth as well. So as long as it's any of our 6 core Asian markets, we're happy. We're not Singapore only.

Kay. And then just to clarify, earlier you said in terms of taking in deposits and putting in securities, you get roughly about 1% in terms of NIM or that's at least the base point at which you ideally do this kind of gapping scenario. Would you say the ROEs on this, it's roughly about 20% to 30% in doing this and versus like your book itself is about 17%.

My treasurer tells me that ROE is 50%.

50%.

Because of high credit.

Yes. The risk rates are pretty low.

For government securities.

For government securities. So if you're collecting deposits and deploying it, all you get is small risk charge.

Okay, okay. So most of these that you do will mainly be gov securities and then for your other books, then you will kind of have a spread, right? Because if you look at your security book, there is a good spread between govies and corporate bonds as well.

Corporate bonds are done by [ GFM ]. The corporate treasury team doesn't take views on corporate bonds. So the corporate bonds are taken in the dealing room. So more nimble,, they can respond.

Okay. That's good. Then I have another question on tech and data centers exposure that you were saying that you've been growing. If we look at by geography others, it's now quite high, almost 19%, 20% of total loans. And it's been like only 16% in 2022 on the other category.

Data centers is about $8 billion or $8.6 billion.

Okay. No, I was talking about just in geography-wise, the other geography, like we are seeing Hong Kong, Greater China, Southeast Asia and others, and the other category has been growing quite fast, as well.

So I think that -- So as you know, the phenomenon [indiscernible] from the institutional bank analyst. We do see the data center phenomenon being one whereby it is growing in Southeast Asia, as you saw it, just not Singapore. We're seeing some in -- we're doing some in Thailand. We did some in Australia. Also U.S., we are participating in the growth in the U.S. lending out of Singapore. As you know, the U.S. market itself has got quite a big development there. So the others would...

Right. I was just wondering.

We only do these very structured. These are heavy structured 15 years hyperscalers only.

There are triple net type leases. So all variable costs are passed on to that facility.

Right, right. Okay. I just wanted to get that because in terms of that, you've been growing, right? And in terms of -- it's the biggest hike now, but what if we are down 5 years later in terms of asset quality, are we quite confident that it will be still okay in terms of growing this exposure [indiscernible].

It's really the underlying offtaker that you see, Melissa because we believe that in the AI space itself, your big tech companies are the ones who are investing and are providing services because they have the ecosystem to have their customers take off their AI solutions. And they do need a fair bit of data center, which is why you're seeing so many deals being cut by all the hyperscalers. And these data centers that we are lending to are actually supplying to these hyperscalers where variable costs are passed on to them.

So we're quite confident of that particular piece of portfolio. We don't go out to do the others one, let's say, GPU as a service, whereby the customer base could be any corporates out there who are looking for an AI use case. Those are not the ones that we're in. So therefore, from a risk perspective, it's pretty much in line with what most of the TMT analyst says on who could be the AI winners. It's really those who already have the moat today in deploying AI solutions like the likes of Microsoft and what have you.

Okay. Just lastly, I know it's too far away 2027. You've mentioned before that 2026 in terms of dividends step up $0.24, you're comfortable with that for next year. But in terms of 2027, now that we're a bit nearer there, do we have confidence to say that we can do it? Or we still have to wait and see?

I think you have to wait and see. Give us some time. Macro environment is still quite volatile.

Last question from Wee Kuang from CGS.

Yes. Okay. I just wanted to ask, I think moving forward going to 2026 in your guidance outlook, you mentioned that there is a possibility of write-back in GPs. I just wanted to understand what is the guiding principle when you look at writing back GPs. How much are you -- how much do you allow itself to go below in terms of, I guess, management overlay or whatever the guiding principles that you may have?

I think we have to calibrate it based on the external environment at time. Remember, I told you overlays are also based on stress scenarios. We have been very prudent. We built up $1.8 billion during the COVID period, and we have actually not released that. So I think we do assess the external environment, and we'll take a call. Whatever it is, we'll kind of -- we think we have more than adequate buffers for us to be able to release some if the external environment is okay.

Do you consider the current environment is stable? Because I'm just thinking out loud that I mean it has built up, even though, I guess, if you just look at it retrospectively, things have kind of been relatively stable, yes. So there is kind of enough that you have on your balance sheet to write back some.

Look, it's definitely better than April 2. After Liberation Day, we took -- remember, we took [ 200 ] liberation day the tariffs, and we haven't released the COVID GP buildup yet. It depends. I think lower rates are benign for borrowers and for real estate and for most corporate borrowers and for retail borrowers as well. Where we still see some headwinds are in the consumer unsecured loan side.

We're looking out for things like unemployment rates, et cetera. Also SME, they're not recovering yet. The larger corporates, the financial institutions, the high net worth families are okay, and they're doing very well. So it's a bit of a bifurcated recovery, if you will, right, unfortunately. So we remain quite prudent in our asset book. We tend to be -- we have target markets and we use a lot of data and cash flow analysis to make sure that our clients are okay. And I think we will stick to that discipline.

Just one follow-up question from Melissa.

Just one follow-up. What is your exit NIM that you had this quarter? And also in terms of the HIBOR, has everything been factored in? And -- or should we see perhaps some minor lift from HIBOR moving up next quarter?

The exit NIM in September was 1.95%, Melissa. October was 1.92% because of SORA.

And next, will we see some benefit from HIBOR next quarter?

Unlikely.

That's all the questions we have. Thanks, everyone. We'll speak to you next quarter.

Okay. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to DBS' third quarter financial results briefing. This morning, we announced third quarter profit before tax up 1% to a record $3.48 billion and ROE of 17.1%. 9-month total income and profit before tax reached new highs.

As per our norm, our CEO, Tan Su Shan; and CFO, Chng Sok Hui, will start by sharing more about the quarter. Both will be speaking to slides, which you will see on screen. The slides can also be found on our Investor Relations website. And thereafter, we will take media questions. So without further ado, Sok Hui.

Thanks, Edna, and good morning, everyone. I'll start with Slide 2. We delivered a strong set of results in the third quarter. Pretax profit rose 1% year-on-year to a record $3.48 billion with ROE at 17.1% and ROTE at 18.9%. Total income grew 3% to a new high of $5.93 billion.

Group net interest income was little changed as strong deposit growth and proactive balance sheet hedging mitigated the impact of lower rates. Fee income and treasury customer sales reached new highs, led by wealth management, while markets trading income increased on lower funding costs and a more conducive trading environment.

For the 9 months, pretax profit rose 3% to a record $10.3 billion as total income increased 5% to $17.6 billion from growth across both the commercial book and markets trading. Net profit was 1% lower at $8.68 billion due to minimum tax of 15% that has come into effect.

Asset quality remained resilient. The NPL ratio was stable at 1.0% while specific allowances were 15 basis points of loans for the quarter and 13 basis points for the 9 months. Allowance coverage was 139% and 229% after considering collateral.

Capital remained strong. The CET1 ratio was 16.9% on a transitional basis and 15.1% on a fully phased-in basis. The Board declared a total dividend of $0.75 per share for the third quarter, comprising a $0.60 ordinary dividend and a $0.15 capital return dividend.

Slide 3, third quarter year-on-year performance. Compared to a year ago, third quarter pretax profit was 1% or $42 million higher, while net profit declined 2% or $73 million to $2.95 billion due to higher tax expenses from the global minimum tax. Commercial book net interest income fell 6% or $238 million to $3.56 billion as the impact of lower rates was partially mitigated by balance sheet hedging and strong deposit growth.

The group's net interest income of $3.58 billion was little changed. Fee income rose 22% or $248 million to a record $1.36 billion, led by wealth management, while other noninterest income increased 12% or $61 million to $578 million as treasury customer sales reached a new high.

Markets trading income rose 33% or $108 million to $439 million due mainly to higher equity derivative activity. Expenses increased 6% or $144 million to $2.39 billion, led by higher staff costs as bonus accruals grew in tandem with a stronger performance.

The cost-to-income ratio was 40% and profit before allowances was 1% or $35 million higher at $3.54 billion. Total allowances fell 5% or $6 million to $124 million. Specific allowances remained low at $169 million or 15 basis points of loans. $45 million of general allowances were written back mainly due to a large repayment.

Slide 4, third quarter-on-quarter performance. Compared to the previous quarter, net profit was 5% or $130 million higher. Commercial book net interest income fell 2% or $67 million as net interest margin declined 9 basis points to 1.96% from lower Sora. Group net interest income was 2% or $70 million lower.

Fee income rose 16% or $190 million, led by wealth management. Other noninterest income grew 11% or $56 million, driven by higher treasury customer sales. Markets trading income was 5% or $21 million higher. Expenses increased 5% or $123 million from higher bonus accruals. The cost-to-income ratio was stable. Total allowances were 7% or $9 million lower.

Slide 5, 9-month performance. For the 9 months, total income and pretax profit reached new highs. Total income rose 5% or $777 million and pretax profit increased 3% or $260 million to $17.6 billion and $10.3 billion, respectively.

Net profit was 1% or $111 million lower at $8.68 billion due to higher tax expenses. Commercial book net interest income declined 3% or $310 million to $10.9 billion due to a 27 basis point compression in commercial book net interest margin.

Group net interest income rose 2% or $211 million to $10.9 billion as the impact of lower interest rates was more than offset by balance sheet hedging and strong deposit growth. Fee income grew 19% or $599 million to a record $3.80 billion as wealth management and loan-related fees reached new highs.

Other noninterest income of $1.65 billion was only 2% or $32 million higher due to nonrecurring items in the previous year. Excluding these items, treasury customer sales grew 14% to a new high.

Markets trading income of $1.22 billion rose 60% or $456 million, marking the second highest level on record. The growth was due mainly to higher interest rate and equity derivative activities. Expenses increased 6% or $377 million to $6.88 billion with a cost-to-income ratio stable at 39%.

Profit before allowances grew 4% or $400 million to a record $10.7 billion. Specific allowances remained low at $439 million or 13 basis points of loans, while general allowances of $143 million were taken.

Slide 6, net interest income. Group net interest income for the third quarter of $3.58 billion was 2% lower from the previous quarter and little changed from a year ago. Lower interest rates impacted net interest margin, which declined 9 basis points quarter-on-quarter and 15 basis points year-on-year to 1.96%.

We continue to mitigate the impact of lower rates through two factors. The first is proactive balance sheet hedging, which has reduced our net interest income sensitivity and cushioned the impact of lower interest rates.

Second is strong deposit growth, which was $19 billion during the quarter and $50 billion from a year ago. The growth in deposits exceeded loan growth, and the surplus was deployed into liquid assets. This deployment was accretive to net interest income and return on equity, though it modestly reduced net interest margin.

For the 9 months, group net interest income rose 2% to $10.9 billion despite a 9 basis point compression in net interest margins to 2.04%. The resilience in net interest income reflects the combined effects of balance sheet growth and of hedging.

Slide 7, deposits. During the quarter, the strong momentum in deposit inflow was sustained with total deposits rising 3% or $19 billion in constant currency terms to $596 billion. The growth was led by CASA inflow of $17 billion, most of which was in Sing dollars. The CASA ratio rose to 53%.

Over the 9 months, deposits grew 9% or $48 billion, with more than half of the increase from CASA. Liquidity remained healthy. The group's liquidity coverage ratio was 149%. And net stable funding ratio was 114%, both comfortably above regulatory requirements.

Slide 8, loans. During the quarter, gross loans was little changed in constant currency terms at $443 billion. Increases in trade and wealth management loans were partially offset by a decline in non-trade corporate loans from higher repayments.

As deposit growth outstripped loan growth, surplus deposits were deployed to liquid assets. This deployment was accretive to net interest income and ROE while it modestly reduced net interest margin. Over the 9 months, loans rose 3% or $14 billion led by broad-based growth in nontrade corporate loans.

Slide 9, fee income. Compared to a year ago, third quarter gross fee income rose to a record $1.58 billion. The increase was broad-based and led by wealth management, which grew 31% to a new high of $796 million from growth in investment products and bancassurance. Loan-related fees were up 25% to $183 million from increased yield activity.

Transaction services and investment banking fees were also higher. Compared to the previous quarter, gross fee income rose 13% led by wealth management. For the 9 months, gross fee income reached a record $4.48 billion, led by new highs in wealth management and loan-related fees.

Slide 10. Slide 10 shows the wealth segment -- wealth management segment income. The third quarter wealth management segment income grew 13% year-on-year to $1.54 billion. The growth was driven by a 32% increase in noninterest income, which more than offset a decline in net interest income from lower rates. For the 9 months, wealth management segment income grew 10% to a record $4.38 billion due to a 28% rise in noninterest income.

Assets under management grew 18% year-on-year in constant currency terms to a new high of $474 billion. The percentage of AUM in investments also reached a new high of 58%. Net new money inflow was $4 billion.

Slide 11, customer-driven noninterest income. We have introduced a new slide to provide a clearer view of noninterest income, which is driven by customer activity. This comprises two components in the commercial, both net fee income and treasury customer sales.

For the fee and treasury customer sales fall under different lines of the P&L financial statements due to accounting treatment, they should be viewed equally as they are both driven by consumer and corporate customers demand for financial products.

For the third quarter, customer-driven noninterest income grew 22%. Net fee income rose 22% to $1.36 billion while treasury customer sales rose a similar 21% to $581 million, both were at new highs and led by strong wealth management activity. For the 9 months, customer-driven noninterest income rose 17%, driven by record net fee income and treasury customer sales.

Slide 12, expenses. 9-month expenses rose 6% from a year ago to $6.88 billion due to higher staff cost from salary increments and bonus accruals. The cost-to-income ratio was stable at 39%. Third quarter expenses were 6% higher than a year ago at $2.39 billion, led by higher staff costs as bonus accruals rose in tandem with a stronger performance. Compared to the previous quarter, expenses grew 5%. The cost-to-income ratio was at 40%.

Slide 13, nonperforming assets. Asset quality was resilient. Nonperforming assets declined 1% from the previous quarter to $4.63 billion.

New NPA formation at $113 million for the quarter was below the recent quarterly average and was more than offset by repayments and write-offs. The NPL ratio was stable at 1.0%. For 9 months 2025, new NPAs were $449 million, significantly lower than the $739 million from the prior period.

Slide 14, specific allowances. Third quarter specific allowances amounted to $170 million or 15 basis points of loans, stable from the previous quarter. For the 9 months specific allowances were $430 million or 13 basis points of loans.

Slide 15, general allowances. As at end September, total allowance coverage stood at $6.43 billion, with $2.35 billion in specific allowance reserves and $4.07 billion in general allowance reserves. The general allowance reserves comprised 2 components: baseline GP and overlay GP.

Baseline GP refers to the GP set aside for base scenarios. In addition to the base scenarios, we incorporate stress scenarios for macro uncertainty and sector-specific headwinds. As at 30th September 2025, the total GP stack of $4.1 billion comprise baseline GP of $1.6 billion and overlay GP of $2.5 billion. You may recall that we had increased GP overlay by $200 million during the first quarter this year to incorporate tariff uncertainty.

Slide 16, capital. The reported CET1 ratio declined 0.1 percentage points from the previous quarter to 16.9%, driven by higher RWA and partially offset by profit accretion. On a fully phased-in basis, the pro forma ratio was stable at 15.1%. The leverage ratio was 6.2%, more than twice the regulatory minimum of 3%.

Slide 17, dividend. The Board declared a total dividend of $0.75 per share for the third quarter, comprising an ordinary dividend of $0.60 and a capital return dividend of $0.15. Based on yesterday's closing share price and assuming that total dividends are held at $0.75 per quarter, the annualized dividend yield is 5.6%.

Slide 18, summary. So in summary, we delivered a record third quarter and 9-month pretax profit with ROE above 17%. Total income was also at a new high as we sustained the strong momentum in wealth management and deposit growth while mitigating external rate pressures through proactive balance sheet hedging.

As we enter the coming year, we'll continue to navigate the pressures of declining interest rates with nimble balance sheet management and our ability to capture structural opportunities across wealth management and institutional banking.

So thank you for your attention. I'll now hand you to Su Shan.

Thanks, Sok Hui. So hello and good morning. As you have now seen our numbers and Sok Hui's comments, I will say that the Q3 was a solid quarter. I think the team delivered a solid quarter in spite of very strong interest rate headwinds, especially in Singapore.

We had a record top line total income, record fee income, record treasury sales and record PBT. Of course, tax we had to pay the minimum tax. So that took off some of our net profit upside.

And I guess from my slide, the -- both the fact that we had some nimble hedging, and we were able to capture some opportunities when the market became volatile, speaks to our resiliency, so was hedging as well as some fixed rate assets.

And what was also pleasing was the fact that we saw huge amount of deposits coming back to us. A large chunk of that was also CASA. So at $19 billion quarter-on-quarter growth, a lot of that surplus deposits was deployed to HQLA.

And in terms of the structural growth, I think we have both structural and cyclical growth. And both the structural and cyclical growth came into gear in Q3 because the capital markets were very strong. So we saw strong momentum in wealth management fees, up 23% quarter-on-quarter, 31% year-on-year. These are very strong numbers.

And whilst wealth management AUM remained very high, I think what was also pleasing is we are seeing the momentum also travel to the retail and retail wealth segment as well. We're trying to get more of that digital flows back and so we had a whole refresh of our digital wealth strategy, which is now yielding fruit. So that's also quite pleasing to see.

The second market and cyclical opportunity is in capital markets in both ECM and DCM. So for DCM, as rates come down, corporates are coming back to the market and we are winning market share. I told our DCM team that I think we have a right to win in the global market.

And so, to my surprise actually, starting from a very low base, we're now #6 in the Middle East. For example, in the MENA league table as of October 2025, we did 32 DCM issuances, including 13 public bond deals. And we're #1 in private placement league table for the key Middle East banks.

So I think if we put our minds to it, we can execute. And I think both the capital markets, GCM, DCM, ECM pipeline looks good. The wealth pipeline looks good and the FICC pipeline looks good, right? So these are both cyclical and structural opportunities to capture more loan fees -- sorry, to capture more fees.

The other momentum is in loan fees. You saw the loan fees up 20% year-on-year. That's also structural. Because as I alluded to the last 2 quarters, I think that speaks to IPG's focus on winning market share, wallet share and mind share and having expertise in the industries that we cover and we target.

So both the loan-related fees and market trading as well was very strong, up 33% year-on-year. Very strong equity derivatives activities from clients, strong warehousing gains, good customer flows.

Then I want to talk about additional assets. I alluded to this also in the last quarter where we talked about the whole digital asset ecosystem and how we had a head start and how we want to continue to drive this head start.

And I think the GENIUS Act changed everything, as I said before. And we are still waiting to see how regulations turn out because different regulators have different priorities and different time lines and different ordinances. But we've gone ahead.

I mean, for example, this quarter, we issued some structured notes. So we tokenized structured notes on the Ethereum blockchain. We've also announced that we are working with Franklin Templeton's BENJI fund to list that on our digital exchange. We're also working with Ripple to use -- to get Ripple -- to use Ripple currency, digital currency into -- in and out of the BENJI money market fund as well. So we're pretty active in the tokenized ecosystem.

We've been tokenizing deposits for a while now, and that's also seeing a lot of customer interest. And we've also started to look at the potential for repo and collateralize use cases as well for tokenized money market funds.

Asset quality, as Sok Hui alluded to, pretty resilient. NPL ratio at 1%. And again, I think this speaks to the discipline of the team. Many years back, before COVID, we started to watch-list industries or sectors that we felt were to come under scrutiny or under some pressure. That's worked out for us. So we have been quite early in monitoring clients that might get into problems.

And in fact, if you see, we had quite a fair amount of loan repayments in Q3 this year. And surprisingly, that came out of Hong Kong, primarily in Hong Kong real estate. So I think we've been pretty disciplined in who we bank with. We've onboarded and banked really the big blue chip companies. Our LTVs against real estate is pretty conservative. And that's why I think our NPA formation remains at a multiyear low.

Next slide, please. So I've been traveling quite a fair bit in Q3 for the IMF and IIF Board meetings in Washington, to the FII in Saudi, the Hong Kong MA, Monetary Authority Financial Leaders Conference this week and to visit my colleagues in IBLAC in China visiting regulators and colleagues in our core markets, Taiwan, China, I'll be in India next week, et cetera.

And I will say that there's a lot of momentum in deal flow. There's a lot of momentum in the U.S., certainly in the whole tokenized, stablecoin, digital asset ecosystem. Outside the U.S., there's a lot of momentum in terms of trade -- potential trade flows, both because customers want to diversify their supply chain and also customers are looking for new markets to grow.

So this shift in trade and investment flows is something that our team is very focused on, and we're looking at growing the pipeline, say, intra-regional trade between Asian countries, ASEAN countries, China to ASEAN countries, Singapore, China, et cetera. There's been a lot of two-way conversations and the upscaling of the China agreements that most countries in ASEAN have has also been put in place.

China GCC trade also is projected to double to $1.9 trillion by 2025. So there's some good structural shifts in global macro flows, and we want to play into that. I talked about the capital markets revival. You all know about the long pipeline of deals in Hong Kong and China. We're trying to play to our strength there as well.

Singapore also has a strong pipeline and the MAS' recent measures to rejuvenate the markets here, the equity market development program, seems to be working as well to create some liquidity and some momentum.

I was struck also by the concentration of the market cap of the U.S. U.S. still is about 70% of global market cap valuation at $72 trillion, Hong Kong at $7 trillion, China at $13 trillion, Singapore at $0.6 trillion. I think there could be next year, let's see, maybe valuations will change. But the good news is, as I said, the pipeline for ECM remains very strong in our part of the world in Asia ex-Japan.

Another theme I want to talk about was the internationalization of the RMB and also the revitalization of the Chinese market. You see that from the authorities talking about high-quality growth. You see also a lot of investments in AI and chips.

The enterprise use of AI is formidable and their commitment to internationalizing the use of RMB for global trade, that figure has quadrupled over the last 3 years. That's also admirable. The Southbound Bond Connect is also busy. That's also quite good structural growth in wealth management onshore in China.

So wealth, global net wealth reached $512 trillion in 2024. I think that's grown a lot this year because of the market moves and also some wealth creation at the high end. So we remain committed to our strong focus on wealth management. The teams that Tse Koon and his team hired over the last couple of years are starting to mature and yielding returns for us.

Similarly, for IBG, the FICC focus, the institutional client focus is also yielding good returns. I've gone to see several global sovereign wealth funds with my team, pension funds with my team. And I think DBS has a role to play with these global II and FICC clients across various products from custody to FICC flows to digital flows to ECM, DCM block placements to repos, reverse repos, et cetera.

So I think playing to our strengths in wealth and FICC is structural focus, I've said this time and time again, I feel like I'm a grandmother nagging, but I do believe that these two growth pillars will continue to yield returns in the next few years.

And in terms of other big theme, of course, everyone is talking about AI, generative AI, agentic AI, when will agents start using -- when will customers start using their own agents to deal with bank agents, et cetera. Suffice to say, we've been at the forefront of this. We have been rolling out both horizontal and vertical use cases. Some working out quite well, some less well.

But I think the momentum continues to be pretty strong. And we're working with various partners, both in the U.S. and elsewhere in Asia to accelerate the tech adoption. And what's pleasing to me is pretty much most of our staff have started to use it. They're saving time, they're taking a lot of productivity saves in the more mundane work, like writing credit memos, KYC, transaction screening.

And our wealth managers are using it also to good stead in our wealth Copilot. Our tech guys are using it for coding, for developing. So I think there's good momentum there, and that will continue to evolve.

Last but not least, I talked about the growing interest in tokenization of stablecoins. As you know, we had a head start in 2021. We will continue to support regulators in their quest to stay ahead of the trends.

Right now, our key focus is on tokenizing deposits. For stablecoins, we will play where there is a play in different jurisdictions. But I think that regulations have to evolve there for us to have a clearer look. In the meantime, we believe that we can play a role, like more of a picks and shovels kind of role in the whole asset ecosystem, whether you want to tokenize your assets, you want to tokenize your deposits, you want to trade on our digital exchange, you want to custodize with us, you want to use it for payments, et cetera, we've learned how to do it end-to-end. So I think that's also a differentiator for us.

So the right side is a short pitch of DBS as a differentiator bank, increasingly in a bifurcated volatile world with geopolitics being volatile. I think our clients are looking for a safe neutral bank for their long-term needs, right? And I think DBS plays to that.

We've been recognized by Global Finance, it's Asia's safest bank now for 17 years running. And we're ranked #2 globally amongst the 50 top safest commercial banks. So I think being safe, being dependable plays to our strength, and I think we have a right to win more market share.

As a diversifier bank, we are now seeing global ultra high net worth thinking they should have a bank in Europe or Switzerland, a bank in the U.S. and quite possibly a bank in Singapore and that bank should really be us. MNCs and FIs as well are looking for a diversifier bank for both the custody needs and their transaction needs, and I think that plays to our strength.

As a disruptor bank being an innovative -- having an innovative head start, the fact that we can work with the likes of Franklin Templeton or Ant or JD or any of these big platform companies means we are a head start. We've been holding a lot of teach-ins for our clients. And as the world starts using more generative and agentic AI, we want to be at the forefront of that as well.

As I said before, I think the fact that we've organized our data, the fact that we've organized our tech and the fact that we organized our people and processes quite a few years ago, thanks to Piyush and the team's foresight, I think we've created a digital and data moat to be able to embrace these big AI moves that are upon us.

So last but not least, the digital and data capabilities I've talked about. We were just recognized the World's Best AI Bank at Global Finance Inaugural AI Awards this year. We've implemented over 1,500 AI models, 370 different use cases, and we hope to create an impact of $1 billion in AI this year.

Okay. So next slide is the 2026 outlook. And we are looking for total income to hold steady to 2025 levels in spite of significant interest rates and FX headwinds. We're looking at Sora to hold at current levels of 1 -- well, to hold at the sort of the 1 month and 3-month MAS bill levels at about 1.25. That means there's a 60 basis point decline from this year's average.

We're looking at three Fed rate cuts next year. And we are also looking -- well, we're also using for our forecast a stronger Sing. So there, you have significant interest rate headwinds and FX headwinds, which we want to make up for with volume growth and fee growth.

So the commercial book noninterest income growth to be in the high single digits. And the reason for that is whilst we have great headwinds on the loan side, we also have tailwinds in terms of our cost of funds because of our floating liabilities as well, mostly in dollars.

We are looking to continue to have mid-teens growth in wealth management and also in FICC and to maintain our cost income ratio at the low 40% range.

And SP, we've assumed that it will normalize to 17 to 20 basis points. So far through cycle, this has worked and asset quality remains resilient. We're comfortable, but we're not complacent. We're still watching constantly to assessing our different exposures for impact from trade, geopolitics, real estate, et cetera.

And so if the macro conditions stay resilient, we could actually also have some rooms for GP write-backs. And if conditions soften, we have quite a lot of buffer, as you heard from Sok Hui earlier on through our allowance reserve and our strong capital ratios. So we're looking for net profit to be slightly below 2025 levels or pretty flat.

That's it from me. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Su Shan. We can now proceed to take questions from the media. [Operator Instructions] We have a question from Nai Lun from BT.

This is Nai Lun from BT. I just want to check, right? Because I understand you have a $200 million GP already taken at the start of the year. But then are you foreseeing like you to take more of that, especially as you mentioned, you have some macroeconomic uncertainties or sector-specific headwinds?

Yes. So let me clarify. I will say that actually our stack of total GP $4.1 billion comprise two components, right? The baseline GP and the overlay GP. And the overlay GP is quite substantial at $2.5 billion. If you look at our September last year, it will be about $2.3 billion because we did top up $200 million this year. In the second quarter, we said it's actually sufficient. So we are not topping up. So just to convey that we are actually very adequate in terms of our general provision levels.

I would say even more than adequate.

Yes, more than adequate because we actually exceeded the MAS 1%.

Okay. A question from Goola.

Congratulations on the very good results in the current environment. Can I ask at least three questions. Okay. So the first one would be on the capital return and the share buyback? Because I think that Sok Hui has said that you are committed to paying $3 in total dividends for this year and next year and 2027, is it, could you just correct me on that if that's wrong?

So -- and then there is -- there was a share buyback program and how much of that have you completed? Because it looks like a very low percentage based on -- I must have missed out, I look back, 10% to 12%, I'm not quite sure. So what -- I mean what happens if you don't complete it within the time frame? And what are the other avenues for management to return the earmarked amount to shareholders. That's one question. Should I carry on?

Okay. Then you mentioned that your deposits -- because you've got more deposits than -- a lot more excess deposits will be deployed into HQLA, are these local government bonds, are these U.S. government bonds or are they corporate bonds? And what's the currency and duration like? I mean you don't have to say the company or the country, but just an idea of whether they're Sing dollars or non-Sing dollars.

And the last question is funding related. But again, you have no AT1s anymore based on your current -- your third quarter. So what are your funding plans? AT1s, are they cheap now? Or is there any reason -- is there any regulatory reason why you don't have any? That's it. I think that's it. I mean two more general questions, but only when everyone else is answered.

Thanks, Goola. I'll take the first one, this is Su Shan and then Sok Hui will take the HQLA and AT1 question. So on the dividends, we've always said that our stock, we had $8 billion of excess stock of capital to return. We remain committed to returning that. $3 billion was allocated to share buybacks. We've done about 12% of that.

And our philosophy is to buy it when the market is bad, right? So that's the philosophy. We don't want to chase it up. And the $5 billion is to be returned to shareholders through capital, the capital return dividends. So as you can see, we've got many different things in our toolbox to pay our shareholders back.

You've got your normal dividend, of course. You've got step up dividend, then you've got the capital returns dividend and then you have the stock buyback and so based on that we intend to keep to that $8 billion commitment.

How much of that $8 billion has been returned?

The share buyback, 12% would be $371 million.

Yes. And then the dividend return was $850 million. It's $0.15 per share per quarter, if you remember.

I mean, how much of the $8 billion is just...

So in total, we basically use 15% of the $8 billion.

Oh, okay. So there's a lot more. 1-5 percent.

No, but the $5 billion is committed, right, because it's $0.15 per quarter. So that $0.60 a year. So that's committed. So over 3 years, that will be all paid back.

Okay. And the 3 years is '24 -- '25, '26, '27, right?

Yes, correct.

We started in '25 for the capital return dividend.

'25, '26, '27. So we will end by end '27.

Correct. Maybe the only thing I would add is that we also communicated that we would be able to step up ordinary dividends $0.06 in the fourth quarter for 2025 year and then 2026 year.

By $0.06 is it on the...

By $0.06 in the fourth quarter, which means the full year impact is $0.24.

And the full year impact will be next year, right?

No, we'll step up end of this year. So you get it approved at the AGM in March 2026. And then it will actually flow through. So the full year impact is $0.24 for ordinary dividend. So what you see on the slide as $0.60 would then step up to $0.66 per quarter. And then you still have your $0.15 on the capital return dividend, which we have committed up to FY 2027.

HQLA and the AT1, yes.

Okay. So your next question was about the HQLA. So you see on my slide, in the loan slide, you see that loan, actually, the growth rate was slower than the deposit growth. And for 9 months, our HQLA, which you can also see in the Pillar 3 disclosure is actually up $30 billion, and these are all in high-quality liquid assets. So they are in government securities, they are in U.S. government securities. These are the main items where we have seen the increase. So very, very safe assets.

And then you had a question on the AT1 because the -- our CET1 is already at such a high level. Transitional basis, we're at 16.9%. So there's no point raising AT1. The CET1 currently doubles up. So for AT1, the spec is already quite a lot. So we don't intend to actually sort of pay up for AT1 until the need arises because you see on the slides as well.

Look, it's not a regulatory thing with the stuff that's going on with Credit Suisse and UBS and what Basel I doesn't want, right?

It's just AT1s because they don't have enough CET1s, right?

So regulators set CET1 minimum, AT1 and Tier 1 and then total. So it's a stack. So if your CET1 is really well above the minimum, they can come towards Tier 1 capital.

Okay. Okay. That's all I have on that. I'm just wondering what's the difference between your structural tailwinds and your cyclical tailwinds. That's the other sort of general question.

And the other one is you said that bancassurance was one of the reasons why you have a fee income. You've got a bancassurance agreement with Manulife. And I'm just wondering, that one is 15 years. How much longer does that have to run? And what is the state -- I mean is it performing to what Manulife wants?

Okay. So on your question around what are the difference between a structural and cyclical tailwinds. So cyclical tailwinds to me are what are cyclical. So when markets are strong, stock markets are up, money supply is up, et cetera, that's sort of cyclical. Structural is more long term. So where you have demographics, demographic reasons or structural reasons for the growth.

So for me, the cyclical tailwinds was the markets were very strong, right? Q2, Q3, the markets were strong after Liberation Day, the rally was a lot higher than most people expected. The structural tailwinds I talked about was the fact that there is structural wealth creation. So the wealth management team remains structural growth for Asia and frankly, for the rest of the world, for the U.S., particularly.

And then the structural growth in FICC, II, assets under management, quite a lot of these funds. There are clients, they've seen trillions of dollars in asset growth. So you've got these two growth pillars that are structural. On Manulife, I think we signed in 2015, it was 15 plus 1, so 16 years in total.

So it was till 2023.

2023. So the partnership has been growing really well. It's been fantastic actually. Tse Koon, you want to say anything?

Yes, I think it's gone very well. So I mean, earlier on, when we talk about our wealth fees, right, the wealth fees growth has been a factor of both investments and insurance at the same time.

So there is a need for insurance like state planning, et cetera. And that is another structural theme, Goola, because you look at China, silver economy, Singapore, Hong Kong, all these people need to plan. And actually, that's our USP, right? We're good at onboarding these clients, discussing their long-term plans, putting it in a state planning, helping to plan for the next generation, for their own life, et cetera.

And that creates a very sticky long-term relationship for your wealth clients. And Manulife has been a great partner in helping us to design suitable products for our customers, having a portfolio approach and thinking very long term. They're long-term investors in Asia, good credit rating, et cetera. So they've been a very good partner.

Next question from Bloomberg, Rthvika.

So I'm with Bloomberg. My name is Rthvika, and I had two questions for Su Shan. You've talked about wealth as a structural growth pillar with mid-teens growth targeted.

Given recent high-profile wealth scandals in the region involving RMs and client fund misappropriations, what safeguards do you have in place? Are you seeing any reputational or compliance headwinds? And what do you think of extra regulatory scrutiny off the back of these scandals? How does this affect Singapore as a wealth hub?

Okay. I'll start and then Tse Koon is going to weigh in. So I think by the way, we have well presence in all our core markets. So it's not just Singapore, right? But of course, Singapore is a major financial hub for us and for many of our peers. And I will say that it's -- the bar has been set very, very high right now in Singapore and in all the major jurisdictions. The bars are set very high for KYC and AML, number one.

Number two, there's been very rigorous source of wealth declarations and we all need to triangulate with proof of documents, et cetera. And there's no let up in these high standards. It still takes a fair amount of time to onboard a new client because of these.

And transaction surveillance remains a key part of triangulating for bad money, right? Every bank sees what they see, right? So if you don't see the flows between the Middle East and the U.S., for example, and you will only see the flows from your bank to another party.

And so when you have big scandals like this, it beholds multiple countries and jurisdictions to work together to be able to triangulate the global flows because otherwise, most banks will see their own bilateral flows, and they don't see the other flows. And you need to put the pieces of the jigsaws together to see that, oh, there is a trend or there's scams or there are all these patents.

So I will say that it's these kind of global transaction surveillances remain a challenge. In Singapore, we set up with the regulator something called COSMIC, which has been a good platform on which we can look at sort of -- the banks can work together to weed out the bad actors. And I think that that's been working.

It's just -- it's pretty new, but that's been working. But it takes multiple parties to work together to be able to catch these -- and catch them early.

Can I just add to that. And I would say that Singapore is clearly a very, very strong wealth management hub, all right? And it has been growing very, very steadily over the last couple of years.

If we look at the standards that we have, right, I would say that it's something that is aligned with those that are global wealth hubs, right? If you look at whether or not there are issues that have been -- that have risen, I'll say there's nowhere where you will never -- there will never be a zero kind of situation.

The important thing is that there is robustness from which the typologies, new typologies that we see will lead us to continue to sharpen our capabilities. And we can see in Singapore, the big difference in Singapore is that when things happen, I think the industry comes together very, very quickly between regulators, law enforcement and the industry to just handle it.

And I think that in itself speaks volumes of the strength of Singapore as a continued wealth hub. So I don't see any of these being a hindrance to Singapore becoming a world hub. In fact, this speaks to the very strength of Singapore being a wealth hub.

Are there any other broader risks that DBS is weighing out that could affect Singapore's reputation as a wealth hub globally?

Sorry, I don't quite get that question.

Yes, like any other -- I mean any other like threats, I suppose, aside from the scandals?

I'm not sure if you are specifically asking about DBS per se.

He's asking about Singapore. I will say I beg to defer. I think your question, you're asking if there's any risk, I would say that Singapore's status as a clean hub has been reinforced by the swift action taken by [Technical Difficulty], number one.

The rule of law here is strong, right? We are open for -- Singapore as a hub is open for business. It's a diversifier hub, as I said to you earlier on, and it's a digital hub. And there's enough wealth practitioners here of high quality and standards. And I believe that the authorities are protecting the reputation and the standards here rigorously.

The bar is high. I'll tell you the bar is high for KYC and sort of wealth verification. So I don't know where you're going with this question, but I will say that the fact that -- and we're very open, right? When the scammers are caught, it's open, it's all declined. So I will say that it should reinforce the seriousness that Singapore takes in keeping the standards high.

I guess there are -- so I say risk, right? When we're talking about risk, I think the inherent risk is no different in the financial industry wherever you operate, right? The difference is we have robust standards, and we deal with it swiftly. If you're asking for further the risk of Singapore being a wealth hub, I think actually what we have done as a nation will enhance that.

And in my interactions with clients, I think there continues to be a very, very strong interest. And as you can see, the performance of the wealth management business, I think that speaks volumes as to the robustness of the continued growth. And if you ask me whether there's a risk of us being a wealth hub, the answer is no.

We are now at 11:42. I think that might be all the time that we actually have because we have an analyst briefing at 11:45. So I think we will wrap things up here right now. Thank you, everyone, and we'll dial out here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.