Dream Unlimited-cl A Sub Vot Stock

Hi, everyone. Good afternoon. It is 1:00. We will now call the meeting to order. My name is Joanne Ferstman, and I'm the Chair of the Board of Dream Unlimited Corp. Welcome to our Annual Meeting. I will act as chair of the meeting. Robert Hughes will act as Secretary of the meeting.

With the consent of the meeting, I appoint Daniela Munoz and Josette Koffyberg of Computershare Investor Services, Inc. as scrutineers for the meeting. We will first proceed with our formal business. To expedite the formal part of the meeting, Robert Hughes, a shareholder, will move and Shannon Macri also a shareholder, will second all motions. After our formal business is concluded, our management team will make a brief presentation, and then there will be an opportunity to ask questions.

Please hold questions that do not relate to the formal business of the meeting until that time. I have an affidavit from Computershare as to the mailing of the notice of availability of proxy materials and the form of proxy. Our circular and other meeting materials were made available through the notice and access system. I would ask the secretary to place the affidavit for the meeting and to keep the affidavit with the corporate records. The scrutineers have advised that there are at least 2 individuals present who are shareholders or who represent by proxy, shareholders who hold at least 10% of the votes attached to all outstanding shares.

As a result, we have a quorum, and I declare the meeting to be regularly called and properly constituted for the transaction of business. The first item of business is the presentation of the company's 2025 annual report, which contains the company's audited financial statements for 2025 and the report of auditors thereon. I note that the secretary has placed before the meeting a copy of the 2025 annual report. The next item of business is the election of directors. As stated in our circular, 7 directors are to be elected at the meeting and 7 nominees are named.

They are: Michael Cooper, James Eaton, Richard Gateman, Jane Gavan, Duncan Jackman, Jennifer Lee Koss, and myself. Rob, will you please propose the nominees for election?

To nominate the individuals listed in the management information circular dated April 16, 2026, for election as directors of the company to hold office for the upcoming term.

I second the motion.

Thank you. Are there any further nominations? Seeing no further nominations, I declare the nominations closed. Are there any questions on this motion? Seeing none. Based on the proxies received, I would mention that each of the 7 nominees received the majority of votes cast in favor of their election as director. After the meeting, we will issue a press release with detailed voting results. Given the proxies received and as the number of persons nominated for election as a director is equal to the number of directors to be elected I propose with the consent of the meeting not to take a formal vote on the election of directors.

Therefore, I confirm that the motion has been carried and the 7 persons who were nominated have been elected as directors by acclamation. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Vincenza Sera, who is not standing for reelection, for her service and contributions over the years.

The next item of business is the appointment of auditors. The Audit Committee and the Board have recommended the reappointment of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP, chartered professional accountants as auditors. Can I have a motion, please?

I move that PricewaterhouseCoopers be appointed auditors of the company and its subsidiaries for the ensuing year and that the Board of Directors be authorized to fix their remuneration.

I second the motion.

Are there any questions on this motion? The meeting will now vote on the motion. I propose to take the vote by a show of hands. I would ask those registered shareholders and duly appointed proxy holders who are in favor of the motion to please raise your hand. Any votes withheld? The motion is carried. PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP have been reappointed as auditors and the directors authorized to fix their remuneration.

The formal items of business as set out in the notice of meeting have now been dealt with. As there is no further business to come before this meeting, I declare the formal part of the meeting to be concluded, and the formal meeting adjourned. I now invite management to make a short presentation. After the presentation, we will have a question period.

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking the time to be here with us today. For this part of the presentation, Michael and I would like to talk about some of our key highlights from the year and discuss some of the significant transformations we've seen across our various communities and divisions. We'd be happy to take any questions at the end of the presentation. Overall, 2025 was a very strong year for Dream. Our key operating segments had some other highest level of earnings. We maintained very strong liquidity for the duration of the year and achieved healthy growth across the business.

Over the last year, we've really focused on describing the business in simpler terms. Our key operating segments are income properties, asset management and Western Canada development which accounts for over 80% of the value of the company. All 3 divisions performed extremely well in 2025 and asset management and income property specifically represent significant areas of growth for the business. Using December 31 figures, Dream's net asset value is $55 per share, which represents an 8% growth year-over-year, including dividends.

Since Q1 2025 we've created $170 million in value for shareholders between NAV growth and $20 million in dividends. While our NAV is down slightly to 4 years ago, what's meaningful to see is the composition has been shifting dramatically. In 2021, our 3 core segments represented less than half of our NAV for $20 per share compared to $45 today. Now looking at our segments. As of December 31, we had just under $1 billion of income properties on Dream's balance sheet. This reflects only our direct ownership in assets such as the distillery, certain apartments and retail and commercial assets.

Over the last 5 years, NOI from our income property portfolio has generated a CAGR of about 20%. And with our strong construction progress and robust pipeline, we believe that this growth rate is sustainable for quite some time. We currently have about $800 million of income properties that are completed or under lease-up, made up of 1,100 multifamily units and 750,000 square feet of retail and commercial space. In addition, we also have another 1,000 units today and 126,000 square feet of commercial space under construction.

Now if we were only to complete what is under active development today, which is obviously not our intention, our income property balance grows to $1.4 billion on stabilization in a few years. So we're making good progress realizing growth across the portfolio. And as we start construction on new builds, we have a very clear path to achieving meaningful scale for the portfolio. To look at some of the specifics within the division, since 2020 at Western Saskatoon, Dream has delivered over 550 purpose-built rental units in our Brighton community made up of apartments, townhomes and single detached homes with an additional 400 units currently under construction.

Supported by planned schools, retail amenities, development is expected to continue at a pace of 150 to 200 units annually, with landholdings in place to accommodate several hundreds more. Shifting to Ottawa. We're making great construction progress at Odenak, which is jointly owned among Dream entities in a local non-for-profit. The project is comprised of 2 towers, making up 600 units in total or 200 at our direct ownership and is adjacent to a transit station in LeBreton Flats. Both towers are now topped off, and we expect to start leasing units at the end of this year.

Also in Ottawa at no more than a 5-minute walk from Odenak, we have Block 204 at Zibi under construction. We expect to start leasing up early next year, adding another 245 units to our rental portfolio. Moving on to Asset Management. In 2025, we generated $80 million of margin, which included an incentive fee of $45 million from our Dream Industrial contract. We currently have $20 billion in fee-earning AUM across 3 public companies at 8 private vehicles. This includes our latest joint venture with Dream Industrial REIT and CPP investments, which we announced at the end of 2025. Since the sale of Dream Global in 2019, we've been focused on growing our private asset management mandates.

Over the last 7 years, we've grown these mandates from $1.6 billion to $14 billion today, and they now represent more than double our public fee-earning AUM. We've done so by partnering amongst the global institutions who combined manage over $2 trillion of funds further solidifying our reputation in the sector. This past week, we were very pleased to see Dream's inclusion in the private equity real estate Top 100 list, which ranks the world's largest managers by capital raised over the last 5 years.

We ranked 31st globally and, first, based on Canadian headquarters. And this recognition highlights our expanding presence among leading global real estate asset managers. As of December 31, we had $28 billion in assets under management, with over $5 billion of acquisition capacity available across our various mandates and an extensive deal pipeline, we are well set up to see the continued AUM growth we keep speaking of.

Over the past decade, Dream has successfully crystallized $550 million in value from 2 of our asset management contracts and with the business now being valued at $633 million in our NAV and AUM continuing to grow, we remain very well positioned to continue delivering value to our shareholders. Today, over 60% of our total AUM is concentrated in industrial, with another 25% in residential-type assets. This represents a significant evolution in our Asset Management business since 2013, reflecting our deliberate shift towards sectors with stronger fundamentals.

In 2025, we generated $100 million in fees across our various asset management contracts. We've been consistently increasing our recurring fee streams and expect 2026 to further increase as the CPP joint venture mandate becomes active. For the purposes of calculating our view of NAV, we're using our annualized net margin from our Q1 2026 results. On a comparative basis, net margin for this segment increased by 31% year-over-year due to AUM growth and higher incentive fee income relative to the comparative period.

Lastly, our third segment is Western Canada development. This makes up 8,500 acres in Saskatchewan and Alberta with our most valuable landholdings being Holmwood in Saskatoon and Alpine Park in Calgary. We're currently active in 3 communities in Saskatoon, Hampton Village, The Willows and the primary one being Holmwood. You can see Holmwood located within the East End, which represents about half the market share of the entire city. Within Holmwood itself, we have 7 communities and Brighton being the first, has been active since 2015, and we're wrapping up that community later this year. We're now actively servicing the first 270 acres in Brighton East, which is right in the middle of the screen.

In Calgary, we are active in Alpine Park having completed 180 acres to date. We're currently under development on another 200 acres, seen in orange, which includes 60,000 square feet of commercial, which has been leasing incredibly well as well as our very first apartment building in Calgary, which is expected to occupy next year. In Regina, we currently own 3,200 acres with Eastbrook winding down this year. Coopertown will be our main active development go forward. Coopertown is our 1,200-acre development located in the northwest quadrant of the city. Upon full build-out over the next 20 years, these lands will accommodate 24,000 residents.

This past September, we were able to officially break ground at Coopertown and have started servicing the first 200 lots, now one quarter of these lots we retained for our internal housing division, and the remaining have been presold to third parties to be recognized in income leader in 2026. In 2025, we generated land margin of $54 million, which included $16 million of raw acre sales. Based on presales achieved to date, we're expecting 2026 land margin to be at least comparable, if not better, to last year's after normalizing for the JV income.

So with that, I'll now pass it over to Michael.

So Meaghan went over the 3 divisions we've been talking about for a couple of years. And I think what you'll see is each of those divisions are getting stronger and stronger. I think the sort of evolution of our income properties, that's $1 billion of income properties we own on our balance sheet, not including any indirect interest in any of the other entities or joint ventures.

It's going to grow wicked fast. Our asset management business, that was a -- 5 years, we ranked #1 in Canada and #31. But that 5 years is the entire time we've been doing institutional money management with GIC and CPP and others as investors, we've got pretty good credentials, literally when we meet anybody in the world. Meaghan mentioned that the few investors we have currently have over $2 trillion of assets. That's a lot of money to talk to about new ideas. So we think we're actually picking up momentum in that area. And last year, I've been thinking about this now for 364 days. I was saying that for 31 years, we've been trying to diversify away from Western Canada.

And I think we're not -- I'll never say that again. So Western Canada has been doing very well. Just for kind of a sense of the numbers, we invested $4 million in 1994. We've invested some more since, but we've taken out way more just in terms of like how we've grown that business. but we've actually had profits in excess of $1 billion on that original $4 million investment. And we basically haven't bought any land since -- of any significance since 2014. As she showed that -- Meaghan showed that we had sold some broad land. We've gone from 10,000 acres to 8,500 in 15 years.

So we got a lot of land, and that business is going to grow. So when we think about Western Canada, it is our development of the lands in Western Canada, but we are growing income properties there very quickly, and it's going to be significant. So Western Canada affects, not just our development segment, but also our income property segment. And this just keeps happening. So number one, the GDP in Alberta and Saskatchewan is much higher than everywhere else. Newfoundland with oil has also been doing well. But it's pretty significant. I mean, this is a story of the country, Ontario and Quebec are on the far right. That's not good because they're the biggest, but we're happy where we are.

This is interesting because we talk to some of the others about Toronto and the country having negative population growth. While that is true, Saskatchewan, Alberta continue to grow, and that's going to only increase as we get -- we start reducing the temporary workers and get back to having 400,000 net population growth with immigrants. So I think that looks pretty good going forward. The Saskatchewan lease provinces with a 12% jump in private capital investments for 2025. If you want to get this country growing, you got to invest in Saskatchewan, Alberta, they're incredibly well positioned for growth that's higher than we were showing. It's quite diverse, the types of investments that are being made in Saskatchewan, and we're going to see a lot more coming in the very, very near future.

This one's kind of interesting because the Orange's income properties, we've actually sold quite a few income properties over that time. We'll get into it a bit later, but apartments are becoming a much bigger factor. The blue is asset management. It's grown a lot. We'll talk a little bit about that in NAV. And Western Canada has actually been growing. The development part of Western Canada has been growing. So it's at or near the best numbers in the last 2 years in its history.

This next portion is showing off our AI skills. We used to have to -- and I would say this, it's our AI skills from a guy in planning and strategy, not even a guy in creative or anything else, which I think is interesting. But trust me, no jobs will be lost. We'll get into, but this is also -- we wanted to show people what we actually do for a living. And it's kind of fast, but let's see how this goes. So this is what we've been doing in West Don Lands and the right is the Indigenous Hub. On the left is -- what's on the left, Jamie? Block 347, which is finished its use. That's 855 units at least 40% of it so far this year. So we're making tremendous progress.

And those are income properties. They do not -- none of this is going to be on Dream Unlimited's balance sheet. They're through the Impact Fund and the Impact Trust. This is a different version, a different view. That's Block 8 -- just -- I think it's -- a lot of people want to know only about numbers, and it's incredibly important. But you'll see as we go through this, we're transforming Toronto East. This one is pretty dramatic is in the last 7 years. And another one -- I'm going to go back on this one because -- this one's kind of a joke.

If you look at it closely, you'll see that the only thing that's happened is a bicycle lane. There you go. And Jose Maldonado, one of the most senior people at our company, thought that was really, really funny and asked me to present it. And I'm glad it got a chuckle. This is the whole shebang. And we've completed about 4,500 units in this area. We have land for another 5,500. That's direct and indirect, will get into that in a second. And it doesn't include that we probably have sites for 3 [ mobilities ] somewhere between 1,200 and 1,500 units at the Distillery District that cost us 0.

Dream Unlimited share of the land cost very, very little and most of it's historic. So -- that's a big area. This is industrial that we built in the industrial REIT in Balzac, 1 million square feet. This one, it was just a farm. If you take a look, there's a semi-circle there. And when Meaghan showed you our lands, that semi circle is going to have 6 apartments. The fifth building is now topped off, the sixth building is under construction. And this is tiny and we hardly put any equity in. But these are the only rental that is available and, right, we do it all ourselves. This is going to be about 800 units in that semi circle. The other side is another 800. We're getting 1,600 units which should be worth about $500 million that will build over 10 years.

And it's literally a posted stamp on the 3,000 acres we own. We have an unlimited amount of land to build as much apartment as is needed. One of the things that's interesting in Saskatoon is they have a very, very high homeownership rate. They're around 75%. They just haven't had a lot of apartments. So there's going to be -- I mean the numbers we're getting from the city is we're probably building half the rate they need. So this is like the type of thing I was saying is really going to contribute. We're building to a 6 cap. The rents we're getting are the best we've ever had there.

They've been a little bit flat, depends on the month, up 2%, 3%. We just finished the third building, fully stabilized, got to take out financing every single number in it met or exceeded the pro forma that we did 4 years ago. So this is really working and generating -- like generally, what it does is there's $2 million of net operating income $1.1 million goes to pay interest, $400,000 goes to pay down principal. We get $500,000 a year. So that's a pretty good amount, multiply it by 6. Now we're getting to $3 million of NOI a year free cash flow. And the building is going up by 3% or 4% a year on $500 million or $600 million. That's a decent contributor to our overall value.

These are Zibi, what we've done there. Again, we're creating something where there was nothing. And a lot of these are income properties Dream owns half of Zibi. So some of these are on our balance sheet. And this is what we've done in the last 10 years there. We're getting close to halfway through, Zibi. So it's going to increase as much. You saw Odenak which is really going to change the skyline in Ottawa. It is 400 meters from the Parliament buildings. It's between the new library, the $400 million library and the LRT, it looks outstanding, and that's going to be a very successful building for us.

Just -- it's a lot. And now I think we'll get back to numbers. I want to focus a little bit on what's in the other category. It's about 18% of the entire business. So we got equity interest in a lot of our entities and most of that's going pretty good. Dream Impact Trust, if -- let's see. So we were talking about office before. Dream Industrial started. They're over a $4 billion market cap. Things are going great. We've got a bunch of joint ventures. I mean, Alex said it quickly, but our platform is 74 million square feet of industrial, which is -- includes the U.S. and Europe, but the Canadian portion, we haven't found anybody who has a larger portfolio than we do.

It's interesting too because in 2018, we had a little bit of industrial, a lot of office. So that's been a big focus. But Dream Industrial is going really well. Then we had Dream Impact Trust, which is in the epicenter of bad. It's in Toronto, and it's in residential, and it owns land and it has debt. And we've been working hard at it. We've reduced the debt we showed by about $170 million over the last 3 years. We've moved a lot of assets into development. We've got great concessions from various governments. We're building at a relatively low cost compared to what it was in 2023. So we've got these unbelievable apartment buildings in downtown Toronto that are going to have a lower cost base than what it would have been in 2023. We need lower rents than we used to need and we got 20-year debt that really eliminates any concern about refinancing on completion and stabilization or even after 10 years.

So there's a lot of time to compound rental rate growth and amortization to great buildings. And Dream Unlimited is very pleased with this business and has a big commitment to it. We look at our commitment extremely carefully to make sure that Dream Unlimited is getting a good return. We loaned $50 million. We've created a facility for $50 million. It's just a little bit more than half drawn and it's secured by the stuff that is creating value. So we're very comfortable with the money we have in this business. 49 Ontario is referring to -- at 1,200 units. It's going to be done in a couple of years, will be done after the condos are completed.

The rents we're using in this building are significantly lower than we would have used 3 years ago. The construction costs are low, and it's being built very quickly at a very good price. That's going to be a big winner for us. Key side is the old Sidewalk Labs site, it's been talked about now for 15 years. And I don't call it people, but [ Saring ] and her team have done an amazing job dealing with every level of government to put together a deal that we hope will start October 1. And we've got great support from CMHC, great support from the city of Toronto. And this is on the waterfront. They're redoing the Parliament Slips, It's going to be amazing. They're rerouting Queens Quay and they're putting all that money into the Cherry Street parks and area there.

So when this is finished, there's going to be a subway about 3 blocks north and right in front of it is going to be an LRT for the waterfront is going to have public transportation at a level that most places don't have. It's going to have 2 lines right there. So we're quite excited about it and the work that's gone into it. We've got a few boutique hotels. We took this over from a partner, and they're beautiful buildings. It's -- we're not really in the hospitality business. We've been around it forever. This year is going a lot better than last year. And we are pleased with the progress on it. It's perfectly fine.

We paid down some debt. They're good buildings and good hotels. So we're pretty pleased to have them, but it's not necessarily core. Condo developments, we hardly have any in the entire Dream platform. But we have Brighton that is with -- Dream owns 7.75% of this, and it's partners with some large developers. It's on the waterfront, it's an incredible site, but it just caught up in what everybody else is. And if you take a look at the bottom right photo, the little building, which is only 73 stories, is under construction. It's, I think, at the 40th floor. If you haven't seen it, it's kitty-cornered to Roy Thompson Hall. This is designed by Frank Gehry. The curtain wall is amazing.

And as -- it just reflects, it's so interesting, and it makes it a really, really attractive building. It's on time, on budget, and we've got about 87% sold. We think that will be pretty good. But again, on this one, we own 8.3%. So these are nice to haves. They're not something that we worry about. We're very much on top of them. But for Dream Unlimited, we'll get into in a second, but our company has a lot of things that are going great and those things generate a lot of cash.

This is more of the Dream Unlimited stuff. Canary Block 13, that's a great site. We got that as part of completing the Pan Am Athlete's Village. We ascribed the $55 value to it, but we actually got it for nothing. It was just part of what we got at the end. One of my favorites is 318 Parliament, which bought for $1.8 million 20 years ago. It's now over 800,000 square feet. We can carry these sites forever. West Don Lands Block 20 has no debt on it. Victory Silos is through Impact Trust and Dream owns a little bit of it. Again, I think it's 12.5%. It's a great site, Quayside, and it's an okay shape Broadview and Eastern. This is just north of East Harbor. Like these sites are amazing. But Dream is in a position where if we do it next year or 2031 or in 2036, the company is in great shape.

So this is the grand finale. We are pretty diligent the way we look at the company and look at the net asset value. If you were in the last couple of meetings, in the last meeting in Dream Office, we showed some numbers, I think they're conservative. But we kind of use the same approach to everything we do. We've been keeping track of this. I think -- it helps us understand where we're adding value. In the last year, we've added -- it's actually the last 9 months, but we're not annualizing. It's just 8% growth since March 31, 2025.

That's on what was then $51 a share, 22% on the stock price, and let's get into where it comes from. Is it resting? There we go. Yes. So the core segments, Western Canada, it's still a big one. Asset management has gone from a variable number to $15 a share. We'll get into how we do it. Income properties is coming along. It's going to make a difference. And the other segment is pretty evenly divided between a little bit of the land we own for $3, our shares in the various entities and some loans and other assets. Here we go. We don't make up the accounting rules, but effectively, some things are carried to market, some things aren't. What we do is pretty simple. The land is on our books for cost. And asset management is kind of on our books for cost, but it doesn't cost anything.

So dealing with asset management first, we're using $630 million. Last year, we were at 16x. This year, we're down to 13x. It really doesn't include anything for a very, very small component of the $300 million incentive fee at Dream Industrial. What I would say is that $633 million, Meaghan referred to between 2015 and 2019, we sold 2 contracts with $550 million. We were a smaller company and actually those contracts weren't as lucrative as what we're doing now. So we think that's a pretty conservative number.

The Western Canada development, this is really interesting. We track it very closely. We're looking to -- we bid on a piece of land, 320 acres in Calgary. And we had an idea that we bring some partners in it was strategically beneficial, but we didn't want to use up a lot of cash. We got smoked, absolutely smoked. And it's a land that's not in an active community now. It's -- this is in Alpine Park. It's not in the first neighborhood. It's in the last neighborhood where we have 1,100 acres. And the numbers that we're using are provable and the income that we're making is provable.

So I think these numbers are pretty solid. Let's see, and this one is just a similar -- our core business is getting better everywhere. And Dream Office, we said, hey, it's really stable now. Dream Impact has got incredible assets, needs a little bit of liquidity, but it's pretty special, very, very small compared to the power of the company. And I think this year, we're going to do very well. Hopefully, we'll do better than last year without even the incentive fees.

Thank you. So Happy to answer any questions if people have any.

Just to clarify, [indiscernible]. How much of it is attributable to Dream Impact...

Say it again.

How much is attributable to Dream Impact that mean [indiscernible] or less? And how much is attributable to Dream Office.

Dream Impact so we use the stock price. So we have 7 million shares at $1.60 is $11.2 million divided by 42. It would be under $0.30. There's some smiles in the back. We talk about it a lot, but it's under $0.30. Dream Office is 70 -- about $110 million, so it's $2.50. So together, it's $3. Okay. Well, I do want to say that when we look at our business, we all work together regardless of the entities. And our team has done an unbelievable job over the last 12 months. I think everything that was struggling is in better shape and anything that's good has gotten better. So I want to thank the team. In Western Canada, our team is doing more innovative, more exciting things than anybody else. In our development business in Ontario we're leading in many different areas. Our #1 in Canada raising funds. So there's a lot of things that are going great, and it's only because of the dedication of the team at Dream. So I'd like to thank them.

And yes, Paul, from where is it?

What's the timeline on for credit development.

Just like everybody else, we've got extra density. I think that's what developers do when they can't sell a single thing. So it's kind of infinite at this pace.

[indiscernible]

Yes, yes, we've done about -- is it 1,000 units [ Krystal ] that we've done? Yes. Yes. So -- go ahead.

[indiscernible]

No, I said Infinity, and that might be an exaggeration, but it's definitely not 2 or 3 years. The issue is there's very little absorption. Costs are high, and we need the market to change. We've got a lot of low rise there, a lot of townhouses, that could -- we're seeing it with HST and development charge changes we're seeing in the 905. -- there's been some improvement, so that might help on the condos, there's a lot of stuff that needs to happen before new condos make a lot of sense. So when you're stopped in traffic, the time to get somewhere is infinity and it kind of feels like that, but it's going better than that. It's just -- emotionally, that's what it feels like. Okay. Thank you, everybody.

Welcome to Dream Unlimited Corp. First Quarter 2026 Conference Call for Wednesday, May 14, 2026. During this call, management of Dream Unlimited Corp. may make statements containing forward-looking information within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. Forward-looking information is based on a number of assumptions and is subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond Dream Unlimited Corp.'s control that could cause actual results to differ materially from those that are disclosed in or implied by such forward-looking information.

Additional information about these assumptions and risks and uncertainties is contained in Dream Unlimited Corp.'s filings with securities regulators, including its latest annual information form and MD&A. These filings are also available on Dream Unlimited Corp.'s website at www.dream.ca. [Operator Instructions] Your host for today will be Mr. Michael Cooper, CRO of Dream Unlimited Corp. Mr. Cooper, please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and welcome to Dream Unlimited's first quarter conference call today. As always, I'm with Meaghan Peloso, and I'd like to call her to speak to the financials, and I'll make some comments afterwards.

Thanks, Michael. Good morning, everyone. Overall, our financial results for the quarter were very much in line with our expectations. In the period, we incurred a net loss of $4.8 million, which was an improvement from a loss of $8.1 million in the prior year. Due to seasonality, Western Canada was not a large contributor as most of the income from the division will occur in the back half of the year. Nonetheless, margin from our core divisions, being asset management, income properties and Western Canada, was $19.6 million in the quarter, which is an increase of 12% relative to prior year.

At a segmented level, in the first quarter, our Asset Management division generated revenue and net margin of $15.6 million and $12.2 million, respectively, up significantly from $13 million and $9.3 million in the prior period. The increase versus prior year was driven by continued AUM growth and higher incentive fee income in 2026. Western Canada development generated net margin of $0.4 million in the first quarter, down modestly from prior year due to the specific product mix and volumes sold in each period.

Since our last reporting in February, we've secured a further $32 million in presales commitments, which is strong activity for the period. Based on presales commitments secured to date, we have locked in revenue of $138.9 million for land sales to be recognized in 2026, which is in addition to the $13.3 million of revenue recognized already in the first quarter. In the first quarter, our income properties portfolio generated NOI of $7 million, up from $6.6 million in the prior year, largely driven by lease-up activity across our apartment portfolio.

We currently have 950 apartment units under construction that will be completed now through the end of 2027 and expect to start at least another 200 units later this year, all of which will continue to support steady growth for the division. Our other investment segment generated $6.9 million of negative net margin in the first quarter, an improvement compared to $8.7 million of negative net margin in the comparative period.

We expect the development fee income in this segment to increase over time as new projects come online. But for 2026 specifically, we don't anticipate earnings from this segment as we have minimal inventory available for sale. Over the course of and subsequent to the quarter, we spent $7.7 million in share repurchases. Now lastly, as of March 31, we had ample liquidity of $342 million. On a consolidated basis, the company had about $450 million of current debt. Of that amount, about $100 million rolls automatically on an annual basis. We're pretty active on another $165 million, which we were on track to be completed over the next couple of quarters.

Of the remaining maturities, a significant balance relates to a CMHC insured loan that doesn't mature until the first quarter of 2027, which will be renewed or refinanced in normal course, but closer to the maturity. So overall, we feel very well positioned on our near-term maturities, and we'll provide further updates as we report this year.

So with that, I'll turn the call back over to you, Michael.

Thanks, Meaghan. The first quarter is not a lot of relevance in the history of our company. In fact, I bet the fourth quarter produces maybe 10 or more times the profit historically. But today, what I want to talk about was some of the massive changes we're seeing since the beginning of the year. And there's really 2 things. One is government, government, government and the other one is tailwinds starting to sort of assemble. In housing, we're seeing tremendous involvement from the federal government, and most of it is very positive.

And I think it's important because it is affecting a lot of our business, number one, and again, much to the better. But I'd also say it is probably quicker to get money into housing to the provinces, cities and developers than it is to do major projects. And I think that we're going to see a lot of benefit in our economy from what the government has already undertaken. So I'll get to that in a minute. And then as far as tailwinds go, we're living in a time of tremendous chaos, but I think we've adjusted pretty well and assuming this amount of chaos and not more, we're seeing a lot of positive things happening.

So firstly, with the government, in housing, they've reduced HST in many situations. In Ontario, between the province and the Fed, they're putting up $8.8 billion to pay for infrastructure that will reduce development charges by half. In both those cases, the final legislation isn't complete. We're expecting it soon. But you can see already they're having benefits with the reduced HST. The Building Ontario fund has now become quite active, and it is putting money into the system. And that's been making a difference. I'll get to that in a second.

Build Canada Housing is also being very active. They're working a lot with not-for-profit cities and provinces, but they're also benefiting private developers. Just yesterday, they announced in Alberta that the federal government and Alberta gotten together to create grants for affordable housing. And ACPL financing is one that's been around, but it's very, very positive. So that's just a small amount. But I would say that with reduced HST, we're seeing people starting to buy condos.

There's been one that's been funded by -- in part by the Building Ontario Fund. There's been another group that is going to buy, I think, $500 million of condos. And they're going to benefit -- both groups will benefit from a 13% refund of HST, plentiful financing available from banks. And I'm just curious how 3,300 condominiums are going to be purchased and what that's going to do to pricing. And basically, the math works pretty well. Rents are a little bit lower, but they're still pretty good. You can borrow maybe 65% debt from banks that leaves 35%, and you get 13% back. And you can get some type of return on your capital in an initial instance.

And then I think people are basically thinking if they can buy for $750 or $800 a foot, they can sell within 5 years for $1,000, and that will generate a 20% return. Why that's important is it's certainly putting a floor on the value of condominiums. And I think we're going to see a lot more demand from those 2 groups plus others saying, I think it's not a bad investment at these prices. So I think that's going to be very positive for condos.

Another thing that's happening is we saw that the U.S. government approved a pipeline from Canada. It looks like Ottawa is getting close with Alberta on an MOU. And it looks like the TransCanada -- the Trans Mountain pipeline will probably be increased. These are not insignificant. Today, Canada will sell USD 600 million of oil, and they'll do it every day. It's a massive amount of money. Canada produces 6 million barrels a day of oil equivalents. That's up quite a bit from 10 years ago.

The U.S. has done the best. They're at 20 million to 22 million barrels. It's a massive amount. Saudi Arabia and Russia are both between 10 million and 11 million. Canada is at 6 million. And with these pipelines, we could easily get beyond 8. So Canada is going to be approaching Russia and Saudi Arabia in terms of the revenue generated from oil and gas. This is having a massive effect on the Alberta budget, it was going to be a negative $9 billion. Now we're hearing numbers that this continues to be as high as $10 billion to $16 billion. That's a swing of about $6,000 per person in Alberta, which is pretty massive.

The Fed is also doing better. We're hearing about defense. And I think that it's probably not a bad idea to take the federal government at their word that they're going to pump money into industries to encourage growth. And I think we're going to see it. And I think we're seeing it in housing first, but we're going to see it everywhere. I also think that with the Prime Minister doing a roadshow around the world promoting Canada, it's had a massive change in Canada's appeal for foreign investors. We're seeing that in our asset management business, but I think that's going to have a significant effect as well.

Another area is the government -- the federal government is requiring people to go back to work 4 days a week. We've been told that, that actually means they need to lease a lot of space -- that will be good for both Zibi and Dream Office, although it may take at least a year before we get the outcomes. So we have 3 major groups that we've been talking about for years. And I hope that for investors, it's becoming clear. Our Western Canadian business has continued to be very strong and growing. Our income properties are getting more profitable every year. And our asset management business is growing by every metric every year as well.

So some -- 80-something percent of our business is going strong and getting stronger, which I think is very, very positive. In Western Canada, in Saskatoon, we're hearing things like the trades are the busiest they've been in 10 years. Land prices are at all-time highs. The city is saying that over the next 10 years, they're expecting growth in population of 100,000 people in the city of Saskatoon, where it was I think just under 70,000 in the last 10 years.

Our base numbers using that are that if that were true, we would use up twice the amount of land that we're planning on using, and that would be extremely profitable. So that's very exciting about Saskatoon. Regina is similar. Alberta is seeing quite strong in our business area. It's actually -- I don't think the benefits of the higher revenue from oil has gone through the economy yet. So, ironically, Saskatoon seems to be a bit stronger now than Alberta, but both are very positive.

In Asset Management, we have lots of activity going on in the platform. We've been successful starting new ventures. We've got significant commitments. I think Meaghan referred to $5 billion of dry powder. And that includes Dream Industrial after the sale to CPP. And we've been very active on industrial across the board in Europe and in Canada. In apartments, it's -- the market because of the declining population, rents have been a little bit lower. There's also been a lot of condos added.

So that's become a little bit less certain. That's been a little bit harder to deploy capital, but we expect to make progress throughout the balance of the year. So asset management looks really strong. This quarter, our income properties went through $1 billion, which was pretty exciting. Western Canada properties are doing well. We've done -- we've finished our third apartment. We have 2 townhouse sites. We've got 2 or 3 single-family rental sites. So it's certainly adding up. But we've just hit stabilization. I actually think we're 100% leased at Brighton Village Rentals 3.

We're putting together our financing. It looks like when you compare our financing package to what we approved to build the property, we're hitting every number or doing better. So that's pretty exciting. BVR4 is now topped off, and it will be occupied by year-end. BVR5, I think it's just starting to come out of the ground. And BVR6 will start by year-end. So we're really getting it down into an assembly line. We're very pleased with that.

In addition, we're expecting that Odenak in Ottawa, which is a building we own 1/3 of, will start to occupy by year-end. So most of -- like the buildings that we built, they're pretty much fully leased, and we've got -- our pipeline is really starting to work for us. So I think this year and next year are going to be very significant years. In fact, in 2027, our first building in Alpine Park will be approved. It will be finished and leasing and Block 204 in Ottawa, which is about 200 units to a little more than 200 units, will also be complete.

So we're really going to see some growth in our apartments on the properties we own indirectly in Dream. Our Ontario apartments are filling up and the occupancy is pretty good. We're seeing less incentives, but the rents are still much lower than we would have liked. The biggest asset we own within our income property division is the Distillery District, and it continues to do very well, and it looks like it has quite good prospects.

So we're pretty pleased with Western Canada asset management income properties. All of them look -- like they're going to do well this year and do better in future years. I would add that it was just announced yesterday that a 350-unit building at Alpine Park in Calgary that we want to build has been conditionally approved for a $31 million grant that would help us get that off the ground. It's not actually quite enough considering the affordability, but if we can put it together with another program, we're going to have a really great building to build that will have reduced risk because of the lower rents. So we're looking forward to getting that all together this year and starting next year.

In our other category, our office business is -- we're quite pleased that it's stable now. We saw a 240 basis point increase in occupancy, and we're seeing good signs that it should stay around here or improve for the balance of the year. Zibi office, as I mentioned, is likely to benefit from the federal need for space in Ottawa. Impact Trust is one that we spend a lot of time on. We think it's got incredible assets. 49 Ontario, it is ahead of schedule. It's under budget. We're building without HST. We're not paying development charges and our construction costs are the best we've had in years.

So we're going to end up with an excellent building across from the subway at a very low cost base, and it works at today's rents. But with the policy on immigration, I think we've probably got another 4 or 5 quarters before we start to see what I think is going to be between 1.5% and 1% population growth. I think that's going to make a really big difference on our -- on the rents in Toronto. And I think Ontario could be a real winner. We're working hard on Quayside. Impact is 25% in Quayside. I don't know if we made it clear, but Quayside is a joint venture with the City of Toronto and Waterfront Toronto.

We're building 1,200 apartment units all market. And the City and Waterfront Toronto are working on 500 affordable units that they will own. But it's a joint venture in terms of -- we're the developer with Center Court, but we're doing them both together. And the City and Waterfront Toronto have been amazing. There's been so many challenges, but we're getting through them. We're getting through them as teammates, we're working together on debt with the Feds. And I think that's going to be an amazing asset. And then we've got a lot of -- we got West Don Lands. We've got some of the Ivy assets.

So Impact Trust has great assets that we have too much debt, and we've got a lot of development, but we're really seeing the development go through the system and come out the other end. So I think it's going to be an excellent portfolio, but it's just the wrong time now and Dream has continued to support Impact. We're very confident that the money we're lending is well secured, and we will continue doing that, provided the conditions remain the same or better.

So overall, I actually feel that we have better days ahead. We set our assumptions for our budget in October, maybe November. That's more than 6 months ago. We got our first quarter results, but we also have all kinds of other progress reports, and it looks like things are going as we had hoped. And the predevelopment or interest from builders for 2027 and beyond are looking better than we hoped. So we're pretty pleased with where we sit considering -- I would just say considering all the chaos, but I would say in spite of the chaos, things are looking better and better.

And with that, operator, we'd be happy to answer questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Sam Damiani from TD Cowen.

Thank you very much for the detailed business update and review. And glad to hear things are going well. Michael, you mentioned -- talked a lot about Western Canada. You're seeing good interest from builders. I think your outlook for 2027 is pretty constructive. Just curious on the quarter and on what you expect for 2026 with Coopertown up and running now, is it -- are you incurring -- are you recognizing lot sales on that project? And is it having an impact on the average sale price? I just saw that the average lot sale price did tick down a little bit in Q1.

Sam, I would say the Coopertown revenue would be later in the year. There wasn't anything specific to call out on the average sale price. It's really just based on the specifics of the lot and phase that goes on in the period. But on the overall, there isn't anything odd or irregular that we're expecting from the sales price when we look at the entire year.

And Sam, it's good because I left out that -- I mentioned the apartments are going -- firstly, with Western Canada, initially, we always meant that as land development. And that business is going well. But now we're developing more and more income properties, and it's adding up to a lot. And it is Western Canada exposure. So I think there's going to be very strong population growth. While the country is negative, Saskatoon and Alberta are still having positive growth. I think the apartments we're building are needed.

So I think we're going to see -- our exposure to Western Canada is going to be both in income properties and in our land development business. What has happened is our Holmwood development, the approvals have been delayed. So we're going to miss selling single-family lots in that area. In fact, part of that is because in working with the City and the 3,400 student school, we've been trying to accommodate more public transportation, which will be better in the long term. But we're going to miss some sales because of government approvals in Saskatoon. But from our own numbers, we're able to make it up elsewhere for the most part. So Western Canada will be a little bit light this year, but it's all because of timing, and we'll get it back next year.

That is good color because I did notice the sort of lot commitments, and it's early in the year still, but the commitments are a little bit down from where they were a year ago. And so I guess that would explain it. And Michael, you mentioned a 350-unit rental property at Alpine Park. Is that all-in-one building, in one sort of tower that would be a large asset on that site.

This is part of our city center. And the Alpine Park is an incredible walkable community by one of the leaders of the urban modernism. And what we're doing is, we're having retail at grade and apartments above it. It's actually Block 1, 2 and 3. So it's 3 buildings. But because of the parking and how integrated it is, they're going to go more or less at the same time.

Got it. And that would be owned by Dream?

[indiscernible].

Okay. Interesting. That's great to see. Just over on asset management, the incentive fees recognized in Q1, just to be clear, I assume none of it was from the DCI joint venture. And if you can just confirm that. And then I guess, just what sort of things did contribute to incentive fees in Q1?

So the incentive fee would -- that was recognized in Q1 did not relate to the joint venture. All of that incentive fee was picked up in the fourth quarter of last year. There is some normal course dispositions from the industrial REIT that took place that was the biggest driver for that fee in the period.

[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of Mark Rothschild from Canaccord Genuity.

Michael, you spoke about, in particular -- one of the first you spoke about is the condo market and the investors that are coming in to purchase condos is something that's important. Can you maybe expand on how you feel that impacts Dream and why you think that's important for Dream?

I think it's going to bring some stability to the condo market and get rid of the excess supply. So I think that's good. So -- and I think really why it's happening is because there's a reasonable economic case to be buying condos and renting them out. So I think that means there may be pretty big demand.

And hopefully, the condo market will become in better balance. And that will clear things out. So whether somebody could build apartments in the future or condos, the market will be more stable. It doesn't -- for us, I don't think it's a really big deal right now, but I think that it does suggest that the condo -- the balance of supply and demand in Toronto is likely to get better on the for-sale side.

Okay. And maybe just following up on the last point you spoke about, Sam, as far as fees earned that promotes on the Dream Industrial joint venture transaction or the new fund. You spoke about how some of those proceeds could be used for share buybacks. Has there been any change to what your target or range is maybe for the year, how you're looking at buying back shares?

I think we said we were looking at about 1 million shares or $18 million, $20 million depending on the share price, although it's been pretty much the same for most of my career.

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Cooper for any closing remarks.

Thank you, Sam and Mark, for your intense interest in the company. And hopefully, people who didn't ask a question are also interested. Meaghan and I will be available if anybody has any questions after the call. So please feel free to contact us. Thank you very much.

This brings today to a close. You may now disconnect.

Hello, and welcome to the Dream Unlimited Corp. Fourth Quarter 2025 Conference Call for Tuesday, February 24, 2026. During this call, management of Dream Unlimited Corp. may make statements containing forward-looking information within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. Forward-looking information is based on a number of assumptions and is subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond Dream Unlimited Corp.'s control that could cause actual results to differ materially from those that are disclosed in or implied by such forward-looking information. Additional information about these assumptions and risks and uncertainties is contained in Dream Unlimited Corp.'s filings with securities regulators, including its latest annual information form and MD&A.

These filings are also available on Dream Unlimited Corp.'s website at www.dream.ca. Later in the presentation, we will have a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Your host for today will be Mr. Michael Cooper, CRO of Dream Unlimited Corp. Mr. Cooper, please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and I'd like to thank everybody for joining our conference call today. I'm here, as always, with Meaghan Peloso, and I'm going to turn it over to her in a second, but a couple of comments are that our fourth quarter was very strong, leading to a very strong year for 2025. But aside from the numbers being strong, there's a number of events that happened that I think are going to make 2026 an even stronger year. And I think our company is more valuable as a result of the fourth quarter of 2024, and we're excited about the momentum coming into -- 2025, we're excited about the momentum going into 2026. Meaghan, do you want to outline the quarter?

Sure. Thanks, Michael. Hello, everyone. Overall, we had a very strong fourth quarter with 2 significant transactions completed in the period. Net earnings on a stand-alone basis in the quarter was $56.2 million compared to $135.7 million in the prior year. Comparative results included the gain on sale of $157 million related to A-Basin, which was sold in November of last year.

So quarter-over-quarter results are not directly comparable. I'll walk you through our segmented results, which represents our stand-alone activity only. In the fourth quarter, our Asset Management division generated revenue and net margin of $61.5 million and $52.9 million, respectively, up significantly from the comparative period. Now included in our fourth quarter results was $44.8 million from incentive fee income from DIR, resulting from the CPP joint venture transaction. Subsequent to year-end, 75% of the incentive fee was paid in cash with the remaining balance taken in units of the REIT.

In the fourth quarter, Western Canada development generated revenue and net margin of $113.5 million and $42.5 million, respectively. We achieved 438 lot sales, 204 acre sales and 38 housing occupancies in the quarter, which included a 201 raw acre sale in Edmonton to a joint venture, which generated revenue and net margin of $19.7 million and $15.8 million, respectively. Now adjusting for the JV, fluctuations in results period-over-period were really driven by the specific mix of lot acre sales. We continue to make steady progress on our land presales commitments.

And as of February 20, we've secured nearly $150 million in lot acre sales commitments that we expect to be recognized between 2026 and 2027, which is up by $28 million from the last quarter and great momentum for the land business entering 2026. In the fourth quarter, our income properties portfolio generated revenue and NOI of $16.7 million and $8.4 million, respectively. This compared to $15.6 million and $7.1 million in the comparative period. The increase in NOI relative to last year was primarily due to lease-up activity across our completed apartments in Western Canada. So as of period end, we had nearly 1,100 multifamily units within the income property portfolio that are either stabilized or in lease-up and a further 950 under construction that will be completed over the next 24 months, all of which will further support the NOI growth for the division.

Our Other Investments segment generated $11.1 million in revenue and $5.3 million of negative net margin in the fourth quarter. Comparative results included earnings from condo sales with no similar activity in the current year, and we also realized certain cost to complete adjustments on closed projects in the quarter, which we would not expect to have period-to-period. Over the course of 2025, we spent just over $8.9 million in share repurchases, which works out to about 2% of the float. We've been fairly active with our buyback so far in 2026 and expect this to continue throughout the year, such that we expect to buy back at least twice as much this year compared to 2025.

In 2025, we paid out $27 million to shareholders and with the fourth quarter results are announcing that we are increasing the annual dividend from $0.65 per share to $0.70 per share. Lastly, we ended the quarter with ample liquidity of $324 million, which is fairly consistent with where we were at, at the end of Q3. As of December 31, we ended the period with $215 million of debt maturity in 2026. But this includes about $60 million of debt that's actually [ auto ] renewed in December of each year. So our real maturity figure is much lower. We're in advanced discussions with our lenders for maturities over the first and second quarter, and we'll provide updates over the course of the year.

So with that, I'll turn it back over to you, Michael.

Thank you, Meaghan. Over the last few years, we've been talking about the 3 major segments of the business: asset management, Western Canada development and income properties. And as we've been speaking about them, I think that 2025 really brings into focus how much they're contributing. So at the beginning of 2025, we announced a $2 billion venture to buy apartments in Canada, value-add apartments. And in the fourth quarter, we announced a new venture to buy $3 billion worth of industrial with CPP. So that's $5 billion of new ventures, of which we've invested about $1.1 billion on behalf of our clients. In addition to that, the Summit Venture continues to grow.

I think it added about $0.5 billion last year. And we've been successful pursuing some new opportunities in 2026 already. In addition, the REIT has a fair amount of capital, and it will be growing more on its balance sheet this year than it has in others. And finally, through some of our construction and our other vehicles, we'll be growing the assets under management. So it looks pretty healthy for asset management. I think we're going to continue to have incentive fees on an annual basis for some amount, and the base fees are growing, so -- and transaction fees are growing. So asset management is starting to look the way we had hoped it would.

And hopefully, we'll find other new clients in 2026. For 2025, Western Canada was a little bit sloppy with -- we didn't get all of the servicing from the cities that we needed to recognize sales. So a bunch was pushed into 2026, which obviously be good for 2026. We did have a joint venture, which was good. And I think that we're seeing a little bit less volume from ultimate purchasers of houses the last 4 to 6 months, and we're hoping to see that improve as the spring comes. But in any event, Western Canada, we've got Coopertown approved. Homewood is coming. It's not done yet. So 2026 should be a good year, but it's really going to start in 2027 when we've got Homewood all approved in all of our projects.

Alpine Park has been going well. We have a tremendous number of presales there for parcel sale. So I think we're really starting to get some momentum. And then I'll get into a little bit later, but in Western Canada, we've got quite a few income properties that we've built over the last few years, again, since 2020. And we've got a lot under construction that's finishing up soon. We've done really well in Western Canada leasing up the income properties. And we're pretty confident that as we deliver the units over the next 24 months, we'll continue to grow our income. And then our income properties, it's interesting. We're just under $1 billion of assets, and we'll probably get to $1.4 billion in the next couple of years.

That's a 40% increase that's going to drive a lot of growth. We are seeing in Ontario that the rental rates aren't where we'd like them to be. There's been so many condos developed, and we're competing with them on rent. I think the numbers are -- there were 80,000 condo transactions in Ontario, 15,000 sales last year and 65,000 rental. So there's a tremendous volume of rentals going on. And as the condos slow, we expect to see a lot more strength in pricing on the apartment rentals. Having said all of that, we hit 95% in our Toronto buildings this year, including Maple House and [indiscernible] House. And Block 3/4/7, we're now in leasing, and that's going pretty good, too.

So we're getting the volume of leasing, and we're just hoping to see the rates tighten up a bit. Meaghan and team put together a supplemental information package. I want to point out 2 slides. On Page 4, we have revenue from our asset management business, and it's gone from $38 million in 2022 to $100 million in 2025, increasing every year with a big incentive fee in 2025. It will be hard to beat that in 2026, but we're highly confident we're going to beat all the base and transaction fees and get some incentive fees. So hopefully, we'll get pretty close. The other slide I thought was interesting was if we go to Page 10, it's income properties, similar pattern of increasing net operating income from income properties every year for the last few years and especially that we really had no apartments in 2020, so it just starts in 2021, it's getting pretty big.

And if you take a look on Page 8 in income properties, it's the pipeline that Meaghan was talking about. And on it, there's just over 100 apartment units that are finishing up in 2026. And that's going to -- they're going very well, and we expect to have good leasing on it. We've also got our retail center in Alpine Park, and it's well leased and coming online. So we're excited about that. But in 2027, we're looking at having over 800 units contributed to -- at our share contributed to our apartments plus another 46,000 square feet of retail. So I think that 2026, we're going to see a significant increase in our net operating income from income properties, but there's going to be a big increase in 2027 and then another big increase in 2028 as we stabilize all the buildings come on in 2027 and add some new ones. So I think that's very exciting.

And then in other -- the category other, we've had some pretty big accomplishments. We've mentioned this a few times. It's probably been a year we've been talking about 49 Ontario and going through all the steps, and it might sound boring, but we're very pleased that as of January 5, we had the first draw on a $600 million loan. We're well under construction. We brought in a 10% partner, and we're off to the races on that development. But just like 49 Ontario, now we're starting to talk a lot more about Quayside.

And on Friday, we had the closing of a restructuring where we split the Quayside into the condo lands and apartment lands. And instead of the Dream Group owning half of each, as of Friday, the Dream Group owns 100% of the apartments and our partner owns 100% of the condo units. As a result of that, we're able to proceed with CMHC to complete the commitment for the funding for the development. We're partnered with the City of Toronto and Waterfront Toronto.

We still have some work to go there, but it looks like we're in really good shape to be able to start that development prior to the end of the year. And that's a major development for Income Trust and Income Fund. Our hotels have been doing pretty well this year. The stocks have been doing okay. And overall, we feel that the company is in very good shape. And aside from having decent earnings, we're definitely building for the future where each of our major groups is -- has momentum to grow earnings for '26, '27 and '28. That's basically my comments.

We'd be happy to answer any questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from Sam Damiani with TD Cowen.

Congratulations on the great finish to the year and start to '26. I guess, firstly, just on asset management, Michael, I think it was last quarter, you said you had good visibility on sort of $2 billion of AUM growth. But a month later, you announced the deal with the CPP with Dream Industrial. Just wondering if you were to sort of update that statement today, would you change it?

Well, firstly, I appreciate you commenting on my credibility of putting out a statement and being able to prove it. So I hope that puts us in good stead for all our calls. Well, I mentioned that we have a fair amount of dry powder, so we can see how we're going to grow the assets with existing deals. You know what, it's -- Canada is more in favor, and we're seeing more interest from both foreign investors and local. So we're feeling more confident at this time of the year than we did last year for the deals we've done. So I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if we get 1 or 2 more going in 2026. So it's very positive. But no, I don't -- we don't have the visibility like we're going to announce something next month.

Okay. I wasn't trying to leave you there, but okay, I appreciate that. And just on the Western Canada, the lot sales were up about 10% year-over-year. Was there any sort of pull forward from '26 into 2025, that 681 lots was a pretty high number in recent years. Like do you expect to potentially repeat that in 2026?

No, we didn't have a pull forward. We had a push out. So we actually have a bunch of lots that we thought we were going to sell in 2025, but because of the servicing, we won't recognize them until first and third quarter of '26.

Okay. All right. And that slide you mentioned in your comments, I think it was Slide 10 with the sort of cadence of apartments coming online over the next few years, really interesting. The NOI contribution by multifamily is a little less than 50% still. But do you think apartments will contribute over half of total NOI in 2026? Or might that be until 2027?

100% by 2027. 2026 I'm not sure. I mean we're adding the 60,000 square feet. I'm not sure. But a lot of the buildings that we have, they're going to be producing more -- sorry, a lot of the ones that had finished will produce more in '26 than '25. So it will be close, but definitely in 2027.

[Operator Instructions]

Your next question will come from Ian [indiscernible], a private investor.

Just one quick question about Quayside and the reorganization. Does that mean having split it that Dream Impact is up to 25% on 6 acres? Is that how it works?

Yes. That's 25% -- I don't want to talk too much about acreage because it's a complicated partnership where some of that land will have affordable housing on it that we don't own. But yes, 25% of the 1,200 units will be owned by Impact Trust and 900 by a private fund.

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Cooper for any closing remarks.

On the closing remarks are thank you for tuning in. And Meaghan and I, as always, are available to answer any further questions you might have.

This brings to a close today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Dream Unlimited Corp.'s Third Quarter 2025 Conference Call for Wednesday, November 12, 2025.

During this call, management of Dream Unlimited Corp. may make statements containing forward-looking information within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. Forward-looking information is based on a number of assumptions and is subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond Dream Unlimited Corp.'s control that could cause actual results to differ materially from those that are disclosed in or implied by such forward-looking information. Additional information about these assumptions and risks and uncertainties is contained in Dream Unlimited Corp.'s filings with securities regulators, including its latest annual information form and MD&A.

These filings are also available on Dream Unlimited Corp.'s website at www.dream.ca. Later in the presentation, we will have a question-and-answer session.

[Operator Instructions]

Your host for today will be Mr. Michael Cooper, CRO of Dream Unlimited Corp. Mr. Cooper, please go ahead.

Thank you very much, operator, and good morning, everybody. Today, I'm here with Meaghan Peloso, who will provide the CFO update in a few minutes. I wanted to start with a couple of macro comments and then after Meaghan, I'll go into some detail about the company. The first comment is without sort of being partisan, I think it's factual for the last 10 years, Canada has been going in the wrong direction relatively quickly, and it's really created a lot of damage to the size of the economy and it really has created a lot of issues with just sort of uncontrolled immigration, like being 18% below the trend line for where the GDP should be, where the GDP per capita should be and it's really been hitting hard as time goes by.

But I would say that the new government is going in the right direction as far as we can see, and we can discuss whether it's going in the right direction fast enough or not, but it is an amazing positive to change from going in the wrong direction quickly to going in the right direction, and we're very encouraged by that. I also think that the major projects are major, and I want to give one example that's close to home for us at Dream, just as an example of what the potential of some of the things that are happening are. Now in Saskatchewan, the Jansen mine is being built, and it is not being built. I don't know if it has any government support, but I'm just using this as an example of how much a major project can influence economy. So Saskatchewan has the second highest per capita income, which is based on $90 billion GDP and 1.25 million population. What's interesting in Saskatchewan is half of the GDP is exported, but it has the least percentage of exports to the U.S., what actually exports a lot of things all around the world.

So this Jansen mine is going to open next year. it's a $14 billion development, which is massive for the size of the province, and it's going to produce about $4 billion of revenue, which by our calculation, would literally be a onetime increase in the GDP of the province of over 4%, and almost a 10% increase in the amount of exports in Saskatchewan. And we think this is tremendously bullish for the province. There's lots of other things. But as Canada gets more major projects going, there will be an increasing number of bumps to the GDP. These onetime bumps that will then continue to grow on a regular basis. So we're very excited about it, and we believe in it. And we just think turning the ship around makes take some time and the next 24 months may not be as positive as we would like just because the actions of the old time are still reverberating before the new actions take place. The second area that I've been thinking about a little bit is, I mentioned that the choices that we have made have reduced the size of our economy, 18% from what it could have been. And I think Canadians have been really focused on the U.S. and from everything I've seen from all of the bank's numbers, it's like if there's tariffs or there's other issues, it could be like a 3%, 4%, 5% onetime hit to our GDP, which is terrible, but it's manageable and all the other countries around the world are managing their way through it.

Canada is in the worst position, of course, because we've got a 5,000-mile border with the U.S. and we're very far away from any other country. But I think we can manage our way through it. But I don't want to focus on that. I want to focus for a second on the Supreme Court decision on tariffs, which I know a lot of Canadians are rooting for, that the Supreme Court overturns the tariffs. And I think that probably sounds like a good idea. But one of the biggest threats I think to Canada is that the U.S. starts to see an increasing cost of debt. And if the Supreme Court says, that the $400 billion a year that the U.S. is getting, which is like 20% or more of their annual deficit has to be paid back and the U.S. has to fund that money. I'm just worried about what that might do to interest rates. So look, the relationship we have with the U.S. is really complicated, really significant. I think we're doing pretty good so far. We can take care of ourselves that we focus on it, and I really hope that Canadians as a whole will really focus on how we grow our economy and how we act more courageous, not just the government, but entrepreneurs and employees as well. And I think it's well within our control to see huge improvements over the next 4 or 5 years. So I'm really quite excited about that.

Just think that what I would say is when we're running Dream Unlimited, you got to divide into things that are within our control and things that aren't. And I'm really pleased with the work our team has done since the beginning of this decade in a very difficult times. And I will go through it a little bit later in terms of all the accomplishments that we're currently achieving. And then at the same time, there's obviously great uncertainty over things that are out of our control, and I'll try to explain how it is that we're positioned ourselves for that as well. So with that kind of foreshadowing, Meaghan?

Thanks, Michael. Good morning, everyone. The company's third quarter results for our core operating business was solid with $24.1 million in net margin generated in the period, up from $9.8 million in the prior year. Net earnings for the third quarter on a stand-alone basis was $27.4 million, which does include fair value adjustments on our Dream Group unit holdings. Now just as a reminder, last quarter, we revised our operating segments to better articulate how we view and manage the business.

I'll briefly walk you through our segmented results under our updated headings, which represents our stand-alone activity only. In the third quarter, our Asset Management division generated revenue and net margin of $14.5 million and $11 million, respectively. Within revenue, we continue to see steady base seat growth, while transactional and development fees continue to fluctuate period to period. In the third quarter, net margin increased by $4.4 million relative to the comparative period, due to higher costs attributable to our private asset management platform, which have now normalized in the current period, in addition to the impact of the transactional activity. In the third quarter, Western Canada Development generated revenue and net margin of $61.6 million and $11.4 million, respectively. We achieved 137 lot sales, 13-acre sales and 34 housing occupancies, which were largely concentrated in Alpine Park in Calgary. Relative to Q3 2024, the average selling price fluctuated significantly period-to-period due to the specific product mix in phase being released.

Over the past quarter, we've made significant progress in our land presales commitments, which helped us manage our capital and adapt to market changes in real time. As of November 7, we have a total of $275 million in sales commitments that will be recognized between 2025 and 2027, which is up by $71 million from the last quarter. Now this $275 million does include the $65.9 million of land revenue recognized in our year-to-date earnings. In the third quarter, our income properties generated revenue and NOI of $13.1 million and $6.5 million, respectively, compared to $11.1 million and $4.9 million in the comparative period. The increase in NOI was driven by strong leasing activity within our newly completed purpose-built rentals in Saskatoon, partially offset by the impact of normalizing operating expenses as we establish the portfolio. As of September 30, we had $928.7 million of income properties on Dream's balance sheet, reflecting only our direct ownership. Our other investment segment generated $14.2 million of revenue and $3.2 million of negative net margin in the quarter.

Overall losses in this segment are within our expectations and periods of low occupancy as fixed costs will exceed earnings. Over the course of 2025, we spent just over $8 million in share repurchases equivalent to 1% of our shares outstanding. At this point, we're likely done using our NCIB for the remainder of the fiscal year, and we'll reevaluate our buyback activity in the new year. Lastly, we ended the quarter with $328 million of liquidity and very modest near-term debt maturities positioning us very well for the remainder of the year and going into 2026. So with that said, I'll now turn the call back over to Michael.

Thanks, Meaghan. As we've been speaking about the company, for sure, since the annual meeting but even before that, we're looking at the company in terms of its 3 major drivers being income properties, asset management in Western Canada. So I'd like to give an update on each one of those, and then I'll also deal with what we call other. On Asset Management, when we sold Dream Global at the end 2019, we decided we wanted to continue growing in the public markets, but we also wanted to pursue private asset management. And since then, we've had some success.

I think we have in excess of $10 billion of assets under management from institutions. And it is -- I think, at this point, it's larger than our public company asset management, which is pretty encouraging. Looking forward, there's lots of opportunities. It's a difficult process to get a new client. It's very time-consuming and uncertain. But we've been having plenty of conversations that we have confidence about that we're going to continue to see growth with new clients as well as seeing growth with existing clients. We feel that, we'll talk more about in February on all these points as we to reflect after our year-end and our approved business plan. But we see lots of opportunities to increase our margin within the existing assets that we have and that they could be meaningful next year.

So between growing some assets and increasing our margin, we expect next year to be a very strong year for profits for the asset management business. And it's hard for me to believe, but I think we're likely going to exceed $30 billion of assets under management by the end of 2026, which I think is a number that's relatively significant. I mean, if you look at the big guys like Brookfield and Blackstone, there at $1 billion to $1.3 trillion and $30 billion is not much. But $30 billion is a relatively significant amount of assets that we have expertise and responsibility for. And I think we're proving ourselves to our clients. And I think we've got great growth prospects. In Western Canada, we've been referring to it. We've started the Coopertown community in Regina, that's well underway. We have 210 lot sales, 60 -- 150 to third parties as Meaghan mentioned. But just to get that approved means we now have that land available year after year with no more zoning requirements.

So I think we've got a long horizon of developing Regina, where we believe there's pent-up demand. at Alpine Park, it's been going very well. It's a couple of years ahead of Coopertown. And we've got a lot of approvals. We still need some more to keep it going. But in the North segment of the first portion, which is 615 acres, we're in good shape, and we've got a lot sold. We'll probably be selling through to 2030, by which time we'll start, I think it's south of 164th Street. So we have pretty good visibility there. We're getting -- we're selling lots at highest prices ever. And I think we're selling our parcels at the highest price ever, which is very encouraging. In Edmonton, I think things are going well. In Saskatoon, we're going to finish the Brighton community. The sales of the Brighton community in 2026. We mentioned before, we've got this massive school complex as well as a large retail complex starting. We're still dealing on some zoning there, but if we can get that zoning done in time. We're going to be on our way in Homewood for the next 10 or 15 years. So we've got a lot of land keyed up, ready to go, a lot of demand.

In most of our markets, there's very low completed and finished houses, developers, builders have very few lots. So we've got the ability to manage slower sales for a while. But we think now that the budgets come out and there's clarity on HST on housing, we'll see a bit of a bump. People won't be waiting to buy. So I mentioned last time I went through some numbers. I think those numbers pretty much are good now. We're expecting, starting in 2026, our baseline of earnings from Western Canada. Land and housing will be higher than it's been over the last 5 years. So that's very exciting for us. And the third major area is income properties, and it's pleasing to see every time we come up with our numbers. Our income property margins are increasing. I think it's going to speed up. We've seen a tremendous amount of leasing on our finished apartments just in the last 90 to 120 days, with virtually all of our newly completed buildings now over 90%. And hopefully, we'll get them a little bit higher and they'll be stabilized in the next few months.

So it's very exciting because it was slow at times with some of the changes. So we're adding a lot to our income profit. I think we're adding $200 million to $250 million a year. I think by year-end, we'll have about $1 billion of just owned properties on Dream's books, not investments in other entities that own income properties. And we think that's going to continue to grow at a rapid pace, and the NOI will continue to rapid pace. And generally, we're getting development profits plus appreciation as the rents grow, which in most of our markets, the rents are continuing to grow. So it's looking very good on all 3 of those areas and I suspect they're going to continue to increase in the significance of those 3 areas to our whole business. So as we've been talking about these areas over the last number of years, we are seeing tangible evidence that we're achieving the goals that we set out for ourselves.

We started all 500 apartment units in Western Canada this year that we had planned on. And we've got the 77,000 square feet of retail that we've undertaken. And I think all the 10,000 square feet of that is leased and the construction is going on. In Calgary, the 60,000 square foot center should be finished in 2026. So a lot of the things are going according to plan. And in Ottawa, we're getting good leasing. And in Toronto, we own the distillery district, but we actually -- we own value-add apartments, which are doing quite well. But we don't have exposure to that much else directly. So we're expecting that the future years are going to look very good from each of those 3 areas. In the other category includes like the office REIT, which we're very pleased with the leasing. I think we mentioned on our conference call that 74 Victoria, the federal government left most of the building last year. If we exclude that, our Toronto portfolio is over 90% committed. And that's a big sign. That's really -- a lot of that has happened in the last 4 or 5 months. And we got tenants taking possession fairly regularly. And of the other 10% in those buildings, we can see very leasable spaces.

We're building out space and we expect to move a good portion of that in 2026. And we also think that we're going to make some progress in 74 Victoria. So it's still capital consuming. But we do believe that the leasing market has improved, and we don't know where it's going to stabilize, but it's looking encouraging. On our urban development, we have some ownership directly within Dream. But most of it is through the Impact Trust. And the Impact Trust has not been trading well at all, and it's got leverage and a lot of development, and it has not been of interest to the public shareholders at this time. Having said that, it has some of the most exciting projects we've ever been involved in, and those projects are proceeding, and they're proceeding in an exciting way. So as an example, the tenant who is in 49 Ontario, left the building literally, like Elvis literally this week and is now in occupancy in 30 Adelaide, and we've commenced the demolition of that building as well as we're doing other work on the site.

So we are underway to build a 1,200-unit apartment complex. It's 20% or 21% affordable. We have CMHC funding approved. We're just finalizing it and hope to draw within the next 30 to 90 days. We're very advanced on tendering the work and it's looking very good. That property benefited from the City of Toronto waiving development charges because we have affordable housing. So that means that we're saving quite a bit of money on the total development cost because of the waiver of the development charges. In addition, we're doing quite well on the construction cost and the construction should be significantly less than it would have been 18 months ago. So our cost base will be quite attractive. As we all know, rental rates have also come off during that time. But I think our savings are relatively similar to the amount rents have come off. So we have a low cost base, and we can use lower rents and achieve the type of returns that we would have hoped to achieve a couple of years ago. So I think we've got a pretty good starting point and we could make it work with existing rents.

And our expectation -- I mean that's too strong. Our thoughts are that with the rents coming off so much for a whole bunch of reasons. Even though we don't budget it, it's quite likely that the rents will pick up again and return to new highs within the next couple of years, which would make the building a home run. So that's really exciting. Dream has about a 37% indirect interest in that asset. We're also making a lot of progress at Key side, which is just a little bit bigger and that's a venture between Impact Fund and Impact Trust. Our net indirect interest there is about 35%. And there again, we're making great progress with the city, the federal government, Waterfront Toronto, and we expect to start that project very soon with relatively similar outcomes, lower costs, lower rents, but overall, having a compelling investment opportunity subject to a little bit more. We still need to do to hit our numbers. So even in the areas that aren't fashionable. I think our team is doing a great job, and I think there's really great opportunities with assets that are being managed really well.

So I guess that's my overall about the company. And then you say, well, the stuff that we can control, we think it's going pretty well. What about the stuff we can't control? That's why I've been saying you got to focus on liquidity, which we have been. And we're always looking at where we can get more liquidity if we need it. And I do think that the next 12 to 24 months may be more challenging than we'd like just because of the change in government direction, the change in the U.S. But as I was saying, like in Western Canada, we got a tremendous amount of presales already. We expect that to be in 2026, it should be a good year for asset management. And on income properties, it's pretty steady. So it should be -- like we should be able to generate cash over the next couple of years, even if it's a tougher environment. But all in all, I think that the company is really quite well positioned. And whether it's easy sailing from here or build both ways. I think our financial capacity our assets and our people are ready to deal with it. So with that, I turn it over to any questions.

[Operator Instructions]

Our first question is from Sam Damiani with TD Cowen.

Thank you, and thank you also for comprehensive business overview. That was very helpful. Michael, one of your comments was on liquidity. And I'm just curious as to the reason to stop the NCIB activity at this juncture for the rest of the year and any update on Dream's support for Dream Impact Trust?

Yes, I thought it would make it said it was a little strong. I mean we almost are at the end of the year. I think we're looking at buying up 1%. We've done that. We could buy a few shares, but I suspect that, as I mentioned, we do our business plan now. So we're still tweaking it. We go to the Board. So we probably aren't going to be too ambitious on the NCIB until we have a plan going forward that's approved. But the NCIB is definitely one of the tools in the tool chest that we'll be using. And there's been years where we bought back more than 1%.

But I think if you compare the amount that we're using it to many other companies, 1% is a reasonable amount. The second question is about support for Impact Trust. And there I think that impact trust put out a press release that we've given them a $15 million line. I don't think we quite said it, but that was specifically due to the predevelopment costs prior to getting the first draw -- excuse me, first draw in Ontario. I had mentioned previously on a conference call that -- or I think it was in the press release in August that we've been dealing with some potential lenders for Impact Trust. There is definitely money available, but it's treacherous terms. And when we looked at that, we thought, you know what, it is better for Impact Trust and better for Dream if we have loans among people who have the shared values and shared interest. So I think we're looking at increasing that $15 million. We haven't fixed the amount. We're still working with the 2 Boards, but we're pretty far advanced, but it will definitely be within what Dream has the capability of lending.

And the other thing I would say is hard to communicate, which is the -- when we are doing our projections, we're talking about, well, when this loan comes up, will there need to be a pay down. What's the timing on another thing? What's the worst case of this. And we're finding that the numbers are moving around quite a bit right now. And we think over the next 60 days, a lot of those numbers will be settled, and we'll have much more clarity as to how much money is needed over what period of time. But as I said earlier, Dream is -- Dream would, Dream is keenly interested in many of the assets within Impact Trust.

And we think that for Dream lending some money is the best way to support those assets and to support Dream's interest in the assets from Impact Trust perspective. I think that borrowing from somebody else is too difficult at this time. So I'm not telling you the number. We didn't say it at the Impact Trust. When we spoke to our Board, we gave them a rough range and we'll know more soon, and we will disclose it as soon as we have established it.

That's really helpful. I appreciate that. And just on the Western Canada side, nice to see the commitments take a nice step up for the next year or 2. Just curious what you're sensing on sort of the end user market, the buyers of these completed homes how that demand is trending or holding up, just given the macro that the country is facing as you alluded to.

Yes. Well, I don't think we have an economy that's national. I think we have a specific economy. I've mentioned this many times, I think Ontario is positioned maybe the poorest and Saskatchewan, Alberta are positioned the best. In Saskatchewan, housing prices are near a high, if not at a high. There's been quite a bit of interest. We had a pretty good spring. But throughout the summer and early fall, it was slower. October looked a little bit better, but I think a lot of that has to do with uncertainty. The builder is committed to everything we hope for them to commit to for 2026.

And as I was saying, that's really because they don't have much inventory. So we'll be looking much more closely in 2026. How we progress through -- how the builders progressed through their inventory because that will give us more insights as to their demand for 2027. One of the things is we've got a lot of new developments. So the builders obviously have no lots there. And I think they'll stretch to get positions in those neighborhoods. So I think we're buffered even for 2027. But the sales have been a little bit slower than we would have liked, but still, there's still sales and there hasn't been an issue on pricing or anything like that. I just think there's been a bit of uncertainty in this thing with HST is a significant factor. And why would anybody buy a house if they're going to save $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 if they wait. So just to go into even more detail, you didn't ask for it, but there was a hope that the liberal government would say that the HST waiver was not just for first-time homebuyers, it was for all buyers under a certain price.

And there's good reason why HST should not apply to new housing. Trudeau said he's going to take it off. There were times where really right at the beginning, they weren't sure whether housing should have it or not. And this government decided in their budget last Tuesday that they're going to pass into law that first-time buyers will not have to pay HST under $1 million. So at least that's done now, and people know what it is. And I think the date that as of last budget, so people can make decisions now. So hopefully, that will be better.

That's helpful. And I guess last one for me, just on the supplemental. It did show about, I guess huge increase in acre sale commitments up about 200 acres from what was disclosed in Q2, including a big chunk, I guess, expected to close in Q4. Could you just shed some light on what you're expecting there?

Yes. I think that there's a couple of things where we're really building up our presales. The one that would close in Q4 is 200 acres in Edmonton that we're bringing partners into like we did last year. So we've been very pleased with the ability to get a decent price for land and partnering with it, that's not core lands to us. So that's about a $20 million sale. And I think we paid $3.75 million for the land some time ago.

Our next question is from David Spier with Nitor Capital Management.

Welcome back, David.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I just had a bigger picture question here. I understand the strategic value in the different segments and keeping them in one house. But you talked about the growing value of the asset management business. I mean, if you're looking at it the last 3 quarters and in the last few years. I mean you mentioned the AUM growth, but on an FFO basis, it's exceeding probably $40 million on an annual basis. There's also future monetization opportunities where with industrial, where according to the most recent filing, there's a -- I think it's $330 million potential carry?

I think it's $37 million, but I'm not arguing.

All right. So give or take. So and now especially with the development projects coming online over the next few years, and adding some additional recurring income. Has the company thought about the possibility and would even be possible to create a cleaner story here where you would have a separate publicly traded asset management business, maybe even combined with some of the dividend-paying investments put into a separately traded vehicle and then the development in physical properties and other? Just to really create a cleaner story, more or less.

Okay. There was a twist at the end there. I was thinking of -- we've really been growing the asset management business, and we know that they're highly desirable businesses. We have looked at funding it -- okay, I'm sorry, I'm stuttering. We've been looking at financing that building business on its own. What would it take for us to be able to finance the asset management with its own debt. We also have looked around at how other people have dealt with our asset management business and how it's turned out.

And some people have done quite well by bringing in a 20% partner who has a strategic partnership reason. So we're probably open. I think what we've seen is the business is too small to get the top valuation, and we think it's going to get bigger. So I would say on that part, not yet. And that was sort of like do we bring a partner in, I don't think we'd look at selling it. We could spin it out.

That's -- by the way, I didn't mean selling it. I meant spinning it out and having it in a just a separate vehicle that will be valued better by the market more or less.

Yes, we could look at that. We haven't yet, and I think a lot of that is due to scale. But I don't -- I mean if you're asking me, is there a religious reason why we wouldn't, there isn't. DRR is getting privatized. So we'll have -- we'll be down to 4 public companies, maybe there's room for another one. Because generally, we're like, no, we're not going to have a 6 public company. But you know what, we've been -- like it has been a very difficult time to manage through, and we've been really focused on not losing ground.

So hopefully, things will be settling down over the next 12 months. and it will be much easier to plan strategic things. But David, it's a great thing to think through. We are always open to ideas from shareholders. If that makes sense for the company. And I don't really have a answer because...

Yes. I would just add that it's -- the company has a lot of levers. And I mean I think arguably, even with the difficulties in the environment. I think clearly make the argument that selling at a pretty significant discount to the NAV of the company and the different parts. So if one, we're not going to take advantage of that via a buyback, an aggressive buyback for just liquidity purposes, what's the alternative way to unlock and create shareholder value? And I think that just might be one of them to consider just because I think we see with other vehicles, whether it be Brookfield creating these -- keeping everything in-house, but creating separate public entities that could be valued appropriately in the markets.

Yes. I mean I haven't paid too much attention about Brookfield spending off 25%. But we've actually been quite active in structuring and restructuring businesses and it's done well for us over time. So I don't want you to think I'm being dismissive in any way. We're just not at that point yet. But we have thought about it a little bit when we get better, bigger.

All right. I appreciate a $30 billion may be small relative to the other guys, but it's not small in general. So I really appreciate it.

Thank you. I really appreciate your comment. It's good to hear from you again.

[Operator Instructions]

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Cooper for any closing remarks.

I just want to thank everybody for listening and paying attention, and we look forward to the year-end conference call where we can provide a lot more information on the business plan for the next 4 years. Thank you. And as always, Meaghan and I are always available to speak with anybody who wants to speak with us. Bye-bye.

This brings to close today's conference call. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.