MLP Stock

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the MLP SE conference call regarding the publication of the results for the second quarter and the first half year 2026. The conference will be recorded. [Operator Instructions] Let me now turn the floor over to your host, Pascal Locher.

Thank you very much, and welcome to MLP's conference call to our results for the second quarter and the first half year of 2026. With me today is our CFO, Reinhard Loose. He will guide you through the presentation. And of course, we are happy to take your questions after the presentation. So please go ahead, Reinhard.

Thank you, Pascal, and good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. First, the key finding regarding our business performance in the first half of 2026. MLP Group achieved a new record high in both total revenue and earnings before interest and taxes or EBIT for short, and continued on its growth trajectory. After we already made a good start to the year in the first quarter, we were then able to deliver a particularly strong second quarter. Across the first half year, we recorded growth in all three competence fields: Wealth, Life & Health, and Property & Casualty.

Revenue growth was particularly strong in the Property and Casualty and Wealth competence fields. At the same time, MLP Group also increased the key figures relevant to future revenue development to new record levels. This applies equally to the assets under management and the non-life insurance premium volume. The success of the MLP Group is above all the result of the continuous and highly targeted development over recent years. We have positioned the company on a significantly broader footing and strategically interlinked the individual divisions in such a way that they reinforce each other.

In the first quarter of 2026, the resilience of our business model became clearly evident. We were able to successfully withstand the negative external factors resulting from the conflict in Persian Gulf. We achieved this despite the fact that the challenges facing the German economy and the volatility in the capital market increased sharply during this period and consumers were noticeably unsettled. The second quarter, it became particularly clear what growth potential we can unlock with our business model now and in the future. And that, in a sense, we have only just begun to realize this potential.

Both of these factors: resilience and growth potential are based on the fact that we have invested in a focused manner in the past in digitalization, artificial intelligence, training, quality and innovation. And these investments across the entire MLP Group are paying off. At the same time, we continue to work hard on expanding our high-quality range of services in a targeted manner, not only for our private clients, but in particular, also for our corporate clients.

In terms of EBIT, MLP was able to record a significant increase, particularly in the second quarter compared to the same period of the previous year. Particularly an increase in assets under management, higher performance-based compensation and an improved interest result positively influenced this very strong development. In short, we are on a very good path, both for the full year and for the years ahead. We are confirming our EBIT full year forecast for 2026 of EUR 100 million to EUR 110 million. At the same time, we are also reaffirming our planning to achieve EBIT of EUR 140 million to EUR 155 million by the end of 2028.

On Slide 4 of the presentation, you will find an overview of revenue development. In the first 6 months, we increased total revenue by 10%, thereby reaching a new record high of around EUR 583 million. Alongside growth potential, our business model also offers a high degree of stability as reflected in the large proportion of recurring revenue. At the end of 2025, this figure stood at around 70%. We generate recurring revenue through the continuous high-quality support we provide to our existing clients across the entire MLP Group, above all in the property and casualty and wealth competence fields. The remaining portion of revenue comes from our new business, particularly in the Life and Health competence field.

In the first half of 2026, the group grew across all three competence fields. The Property and Casualty competence field with growth of 12% and the Wealth competence field with growth of 11%, performed particularly strong. The key driver in the Property and Casualty competence field was a non-life insurance premium volume managed for corporate and private clients, which we significantly expanded compared with the same period of the previous year.

In the Wealth competence field, MLP recorded notably higher revenue in Wealth Management, in particular, resulting from the further strong growth in assets under management and from performance-based compensation. The MLP Group also recorded a positive development in the Life and Health competence field. Given the persistently challenging market environment, this is anything but a given. Within the Life and Health competence field, both the Old-age Provision business field and the Health Insurance business field was slightly above the previous year's levels. In the other competence field, revenue remained stable.

The continuing high level of trust that our clients place in our consulting services is also reflected in our key figures. These figures are an important indicator of the MLP Group's future revenue development. It is particularly encouraging that despite the temporary decline in the capital markets during the first half of the year, we're able to increase assets under management significantly to a new record level of EUR 68.8 billion. This development once again underlines the substance of our business model and the quality of our long-term client relationships.

Our second key figure also recorded a significant increase. The non-life insurance premium volume reached a new record high of EUR 865 million. The multiyear development shows that we are growing continuously and sustainably in this area. In Property and Casualty, we have established a significant market position. For the MLP Group, this means additional stability in the portfolio business and at the same time, further growth potential.

You will find the current income statement on Slide 7. The first half of 2026, the MLP Group increased EBIT to a new record high of EUR 64 million (sic) [ EUR 60.4 million ]. This development reflects, in particular, the strong growth in total revenue and is also an expression of our continued disciplined cost management. It once again demonstrates the resilience of our strategically enhanced business model. At the same time, we have significant growth potential. I will go into this in more detail shortly when discussing our forecast and planning.

If you now take a brief look at the right-hand side of the slide, you'll see the key figures that underline our solid balance sheet structure. Compared to the 2025 balance sheet date, equity increased from EUR 585 million to EUR 589 million. The regulatory core capital ratio stood at 17.7% as of the 30th of June 2026. Our short-term liquidity position also remains very comfortable. The Liquidity Coverage Ratio or LCR for short, stood at 831% and was therefore significantly above the regulatory requirement of 100%.

I would now like to explain individual strategic business developments within the group in some more detail. I will begin with the expansion of our business model with medical professionals. Here, following a successful trial period, we have developed a new offering called Praxeasy, which has now been available to our medical professional clients for several weeks and is attracting noticeable interest. In the market for medical professionals, where we already hold a strong position today, we support our clients in their financial matters, both private and business related. And there is a clear trend. The willingness among doctors to set up in practice is declining noticeably, above all due to growing bureaucracy, a shortage of skilled staff and increasing cost pressure in the outpatient care system.

This is precisely where our new offering comes in. The AI-supported solution provides targeted relief for doctors in private practice and administrative processes such as appointment and patient management, thereby strengthening operational performance in day-to-day practice. AI-supported processes flanked by an operations center and integrated into established practice management systems create tangible efficiency gains without any system discontinuities. At the same time, one point is crucial to us. Unlike other market models, our new offering expressly supports the entrepreneurial independence of doctors. This is one of the reasons why we received positive feedback in the preceding pilot phase.

In short, we are making a concrete contribution to the future viability of doctors in private practice. Creating new points of contact, particularly with younger medical professionals and at the same time, underlining our ambition to support this client group holistically from a 360-degree perspective. Obviously, no data whatsoever is transferred to MLP, including patient data. Everything remains with the medical professional.

This new offering is also another example of the consistent expansion and deployment of our digital platforms within the MLP Group. With these independent units, we create concrete benefits for clients, in this case, by relieving doctors in private practice of demanding administrative processes. The individual platforms each offer their own attractive revenue potential, which is further expanded through networking within the group. For example, in future, we will also be able to offer doctors in private practice integrated access to our corporate benefits platform TaxTra.

Key elements of our platform strategy also include the scalability and AI capability of the individual platforms. The interconnectedness and mutual integration create additional benefits for our clients and at the same time, further potential for MLP. Another strategically important topic is the new Altersvorsorgedepot initiated by the government, which is intended to replace the current Riester pension as of the 1st of January 2027. This will fundamentally change the framework conditions in the market for subsidized private pension provision.

What is the essential about? The capital markets will play a significantly stronger role in subsidized private pension provision, and there will be greater flexibility for consumers. Both developments are to be welcomed. This approach will be implemented through new product solutions. Guarantees will remain possible, but they are no longer mandatory. The aim is above all to increase return opportunities.

In addition, the payout plan instead of a lifelong pension will also be possible in the future. The group of eligible persons will be expanded. At the same time, more contribution proportional subsidies are planned. MLP has, of course, prepared for these changes, both in terms of consulting and products. Our clients will be able to use an Altersvorsorgedepot anchored at MLP Banking. They can choose between the standard product that must be offered and client-specific solutions. Insurance solutions from our quality assessed product partners will continue to be available for our consultants to broker as well.

For our clients, this development brings new opportunities while at the same time increasing the need for consulting. This is because the new world of subsidized old-age provision will inevitably also create a certain degree of complexity for new pension savers as well as for existing clients. The latter are faced with a question of whether they should now switch to the new world or whether the old one is more advantageous for them. Our consultants are the first point of contact here and have already started discussing the retirement savings account with their clients as well as with prospective clients. It is already becoming evident that consulting will be the key differentiating factor, not least when compared to purely digital providers. MLP can support a wide range of client groups in finding the solution that is right for them.

I'll now come to our forecast for the financial year 2026. MLP continues to expect the established growth trajectory to carry forward and confirms its EBIT forecast of EUR 100 million to EUR 110 million. Increasing revenue in all three competence fields, Wealth, Life and Health, and Property and Casualty is expected to contribute to the forecast earnings growth in 2026. Today, we are, therefore, also confirming the revenue forecast in these three competence fields.

The performance-based compensations that we generate in the Wealth competence field are traditionally forecasted conservatively. Our midterm planning for the end of 2028, which we are reaffirming today also remains unchanged. We continue to plan for EBIT of EUR 140 million to EUR 155 million with total revenue of EUR 1.3 billion to EUR 1.4 billion. Moreover, the following applies. Performance-based compensation, which, as we have often said, is also heavily influenced by external factors, has been taken into account conservatively and only to a limited extent. By contrast, the significant increase in the key figures, namely assets under management and the managed non-life insurance premium volume on property and casualty has been factored in.

The strategically planned unlocking of potential and consulting family clients, the targeted expansion of the corporate client business and the multi-asset approach for institutional and high net worth clients are expected to lead to sustained growth across all competence fields. The targeted significant increase in earnings will also be supported by the digitalization strategy and in particular, AI applications, which are expected to drive ongoing efficiency gains and improvements in client support as well for our client consultants. This is complemented by continued disciplined and tight cost management.

Ladies and gentlemen, I now come to the summary. First, the success of the MLP Group is above all the result of the continuous and highly targeted development over recent years. Our investments in digitalization, artificial intelligence, training, quality and innovation are increasingly paying off, and we have only just begun to realize our potential. Second, following the good results in the first half of the year, we have established an excellent position for achieving our EBIT forecast for the full year 2026. Third, we are pressing ahead in a targeted manner with our strategic priorities. Namely asset growth and the expansion of the corporate client business as well as the client-centered use of artificial intelligence. And we continue to keep a close eye on costs. Accordingly, we are also on track with our midterm planning for 2028.

Thank you for your attention and your interest. I will now be happy to answer your questions.

[Operator Instructions] We already have a few questions on the queue. The first question is from Simon Keller from NuWays.

I'll start off with three. Firstly, what drove the improvement in Life & Health in Q2? And do you see this momentum that you've built in Q2 continuing in Q3? Secondly, what was the level of performance fees you had in Q2? Can you remind us also what's the incremental EBIT margin on these performance fees? And I guess also somewhat related is my third question, what is the personnel cost run rate that we should assume for Q3, i.e., without bonus components that I think might have impacted Q2? Maybe you can clarify this.

Thank you for your questions. Life & Health, we overall -- I think there is no special effect. We just saw a little bit higher interest there in our consulting discussions with our clients. I would see, especially in Health, where we saw a higher growth rate. I think especially in Health, it will continue like this also or in a similar manner also in the second half of the year in Q3 due to all the discussions around, let's say, the health system, and this definitely supports the questions of our customers and therefore, supports the need for more consultancy.

And therefore, especially in Health, we are positive in Life, as we all have in mind, especially in the Q4 is the strongest quarter for Life. And therefore, it's also important that it continues with the, let's say, Life slightly positive tendence of the first half of the year. Performance fees in the second quarter, I would like to bring, let's say, the first half of the year, the pure performance fees for the first half of the year were EUR 8.5 million. And additionally, we had, by the way, only in Q2, carries fees coming from carries of EUR 3.6 million. The EBIT effect of the carries in this quarter was almost 0. The EBIT effect of the performance fees is around 2/3 of the overall number.

And therefore, let's say, the performance fees in this second quarter and then in the first half of the year were a little bit special than normal ways that we have around 2/3 of EBIT effect out of the overall number. Personnel costs. Obviously, there was a bonus effect. Nevertheless, we also had an increase in staff in some areas, FERI Banking and DOMCURA, especially due to also the growth in business. But you're totally right, the bonus effect has a high impact there. And let's say, we all hope that the bonus effect also will have a high impact in the second half of the year. But the run-rate for the pure personnel cost is around 3%. I hope this answered your question.

The next question is from Marius Fuhrberg from Berenberg.

A few, if I may. The first one on your guidance, which you had remained unchanged with EUR 100 million to EUR 110 million EBIT. Compared to last year, we will hopefully not see a respective impairment in Q4. And looking at your underlying performance in your general business and deducting those -- I think it was EUR 9.5 million impairment last year Q4. EBIT should at least in the second half of the year be in the area of EUR 55 million to EUR 60 million in my view, which would then imply that you run above your guidance for the full year. So what are your thoughts on this?

The second question is with regards to the Altersvorsorgedepot. Can you quantify the revenue potential of the introduction of this over the next 3 to 5 years? A ballpark area here would be nice to know. And also, what do you expect with regards to EBIT there?

And the last one, which is to Praxeasy. Is this included in the Financial Consulting segment? And how is the monetization of Praxeasy structured? And maybe one additional question. I saw that you have resegmented quite a lot with Deutschland.Immobilien and the Financial Consulting segment. Can you please elaborate on that a little bit and how we should model this in our financial models, please?

Fuhrberg, thank you for the question. Very good question. I'll start with the guidance. Yes, obviously, we had a good start in the first half of the year. The remaining question is what will we see in the second half of the year, not only from, let's say, what we can influence directly on our own, but especially how the capital markets will act or react. And we saw the volatility, for example, at the end of Q1, we saw that the markets were down. And you saw that, for example, in our assets under management, we saw this that there was no performance fees or almost no performance fees. And the question is what comes in the second half of the year.

Let's say it this way, if the market continues as good as they are right now, then obviously, there might be a potential at the end of the next quarter to discuss about changing our guidance. But at the moment, we are a little bit, let's say, concerned or anxious might be too much, but at least concerned what the capital markets will bring in the second half of the year, and that was the reason why we didn't change our guidance.

And in -- let's say, our expectation for the next month or for the second half of the year are no more performance fees included. And definitely, this will be something which will influence the results also of the second half of the year. Altersvorsorgedepot, you asked me to quantify this. To be quite honest, at the moment, we can't. The reason is it's more or less a new market with new market participants with many, many questions still how the markets will be, let's say, divided, split up. We see it overall as a positive effect for us, definitely. But even internally, we, at the moment, feel very unsecured to plan it right now. I think three months later, we will know more. But at the moment, there are still too many questions who will -- how step into the market and especially when we are preparing to start in the 1st of January.

We personally think or we believe that it's important to start very early to be from the beginning in the market. We know that some market participants might have problems to start in the 1st of January. Others definitely will be there. Therefore, many questions there at the moment, we can't quantify this.

The last question, Praxeasy, it will be part of the segment of [Foreign Language]. And obviously, at the moment, there are almost no -- or there are in the figures of the first half year, there is no influence of Praxeasy because it's just started. Let's see how this develops. The acceptance in the market, the first reactions were quite good. And now we have to start with the medical doctors there to reach their efficient or the revenues we need there. And then last question was concerning the Deutschland.Immobilien segment and [Foreign Language]. We did a restructuring with the following idea behind it in all the areas we are in Life and Health or in Non-life insurance, the [Foreign Language] segment has a product management inside the company, MLP [Foreign Language].

The only case where it was not so was in the Real Estate segment. And we decided to put the sales support and the product management into [Foreign Language] as well because 95% of the revenues in sales in -- were done via [Foreign Language]. And with this, we want to, on one side, strengthen the support for the consultants of MLP. On the other side, we want to focus more on the sales channel via third parties. And now Deutschland.Immobilien can focus more on this channel. With the sale of -- therefore, we -- let's say, sold the company, Vertrieb Deutschland, which includes the sales support and the product management from Deutschland.Immobilien to [Foreign Language] with the effect that there was a profit out of this transaction or a price of EUR 60 million going from [Foreign Language] to the segment. Deutschland.Immobilien with obviously on group level is reconciled, you'll find that, therefore, also the higher numbers in the column consolidation. And therefore, on a group level, there is no effect. It's only an effect in the respective segments. I hope this answered your questions.

Okay. So Deutschland.Immobilien basically remains with a very -- yes, I would say, single-digit million revenue business then for the remaining quarters?

It remains with, let's say, the -- as I said, the focus on the third-party business, which definitely is -- yes, I would agree, a single million digit revenues and possible effects from sales of some of the included projects. At the moment, as you know, we have, let's say, 4 projects more or less on hold. And there might be a start in the last quarter, the sale of one of the real estate projects.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from Gerhard Schwarz from Baader Bank.

Basically, I have a question on the other income that is obviously heavily influenced in some areas by this transaction you just mentioned. But nonetheless, there is still a quite significant increase of your other income during the quarter, and this was EUR 7 million alone. Can you explain what drove this effect when the transaction of Deutschland.Immobilien was not the driver. I saw in some segments that you stated there would be effect from higher performance fees, higher cost allocations and there were overall lower provisions, which all might apply to this line. But what exactly was the main effect here?

Mr. Schwarz. I think a very relevant question. The main single effect comes from the carries. I explained that this time, the, let's say, performance-based compensation was split between the, let's say, normal performance fees coming from our own funds and that we have EUR 3.6 million revenues from carries, from hedge funds, which we booked into other income. And therefore, EUR 3.6 million, which is the biggest single effect in this line is due to this carry revenues.

So we have Simon Keller back on the line with a follow-up question.

Yes, two, in fact, actually. Firstly, what were the net inflows in the Wealth Management business in Q2? And then a follow-up question on the Praxeasy business. I was wondering whether this is basically supposed to be a profit-generating unit on its own or whether we should rather see it as a marketing tool for financial services that MLP is offering? And if the latter is the case, I was wondering whether you draw the line as to what your core competencies are and where you basically want to basic -- or where you want to have marketing tools, so to say.

Net inflows, I will say, speak again for the first half of the year. We have in the first half of the year net outflows of EUR 0.4 billion. The main reason for that is that in our segment FERI, we had an outflow for consulting mandate. The customer is still there, but he had to reduce his consulting mandate because he had to turn this liquidity part into cash, and this was more than EUR 1 billion just with this single customer. Therefore, overall number, net outflows of EUR 0.4 billion.

But allow me just to, let's say, underline one aspect because overall, we still feel happy not only due to the performance because then you can calculate that the performance of EUR 3.4 billion for the first half of the year obviously helps us to increase our asset under management, which makes us feel quite confident is that, as you know, we have three areas: the institutional, the private in the segment FERI with more than EUR 2 billion liquid assets.

And then we have the customers in the banking segment. In the banking segment, we were able to increase the assets under management to EUR 16.2 billion with net inflows of EUR 0.6 billion. And this obviously is therefore important because there, the margin is let's say, higher than in other areas. And therefore, overall, we feel quite good with the overall number. This was the number part concerning net inflows and now comes more the, let's say, general explanation concerning Praxeasy. As you know, we have quite strong footprint in the medical practice overall in the segment for medical professionals, 20% of all doctors in Germany are amongst our customers and especially strong, we are in this area where we have doctors who have their own practice. And overall, this is going down.

And therefore, let's say, we try to support this area for practices, not only for, let's say, for practices where we have just one owner, which is, let's say, the normal or was a normal case in the past, but also we need to support where we have more doctors together in a medical [Foreign Language] or things like this. And therefore, we ask our question, how can we do this, how we can we support them with our financial consulting on one side. And part of the financial consulting also is the question, how do they organize their practice that they can concentrate on their focus being a doctor and not concentrating on their financial needs or the financial questions they have and the way how they manage their practice.

And therefore, we had a lot of discussions and interviews what would these customers and potential customers would need. And the outcome was that they said, okay, we would like to have support from someone who has a view on economical questions, not only for the, let's say, pure economical questions, but also for the way how on a -- in an economical manner I can organize my own business. And that was the reason why we then started, okay, then let's start with the company to support it.

And obviously, it is something new, but nevertheless, it is and should be part of the overall question, how can we support our customer group of the doctors. Therefore, it's definitely not only a marketing tool, but it's, let's say, it's a support of our holistic way of consulting them. Finally, obviously, this company should earn money. Definitely, it will not in the first 2, 3 years. It's -- as always, it's -- we see it as a start-up. But it will be -- our plans and our target is to see this company profitable.

Thank you very much. With that, we have answered all the questions. Thank you very much for your participation. And I would like to hand over to your host, Pascal Locher, for the closing remarks.

Okay. If there are no further questions, I would like to thank you for taking part in our conference call. And of course, you can reach us if any further questions arise later. I wish you a good afternoon. Thank you, and goodbye.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the MLP SE conference call regarding the publication of the results for the First Quarter 2026. [Operator Instructions]

Let me now turn the floor over to your host, Pascal Locher.

Thank you very much, and welcome to MLP's conference call to our results for the first quarter of 2026.

With me today is our CFO, Reinhard Loose. He will guide you through the presentation. And of course, we are happy to take your questions after the presentation. So please go ahead, Reinhard.

Thank you, Pascal, and good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Firstly, the key takeaway for the first 3 months of the financial year 2026. MLP has once again made a strong start to the year. We've continued our midterm growth path while achieving new all-time highs in revenue and earnings at the same time. This positive development was driven in particular by the strong revenue growth in the Property & Casualty competence field, whilst figures in the Wealth and Life & Health competence fields remained stable. Thanks to our broad and strategically integrated positioning, we were able to successfully withstand the adverse external factors resulting from the military conflicts in the Persian Gulf.

This was achieved despite a significant increase in uncertainty for the German economy and heightened volatility in capital markets in recent years. MLP also demonstrated strength in the key figures that are important for future revenue development. Assets under management remained stable despite a temporary downturn in stock markets, while the non-life insurance premium volume once again increased to a new all-time high. In terms of earnings before interest and taxes, in short, EBIT, the MLP Group at EUR 41.3 million is well on track to achieve its full year forecast of EUR 100 million to EUR 110 million.

Naturally, we are not immune to all uncertainties in our markets, but we have built up a high degree of resilience. We also reaffirm our planning to reach EBIT of EUR 140 million to EUR 155 million by the end of 2028.

Our highly stable business model offers significant growth potential, which we are increasingly unlocking. We support and consult private and institutional as well as corporate clients across all financial matters. We deploy artificial intelligence primarily where it clearly benefits clients and client consultants, always acting in a highly targeted and responsible manner. The rapidly increasing use of artificial intelligence across the entire MLP Group, combined with our high-quality personal consulting, which forms the core of our service offering, represents a clear competitive advantage for us. On

Slide 4 of the presentation, you will find the overview of revenue development. We were able to increase total revenue by 5% in the opening quarter, reaching a new all-time high of around EUR 315 million. At this point, I would also like to draw your attention to the share of recurring revenue. As at the end of 2025, this stood at around 70%, a clear indication of the high stability of our business model. We generate recurring revenue through the continuous high-quality support of our existing clients across the entire MLP Group, primarily the Property & Casualty and Wealth competence fields.

The remaining portion of revenue is derived from our new business, particularly in the Life & Health competence field. In the first quarter of 2026, the group recorded its strongest revenue growth of 12% in the Property & Casualty competence field, reflecting the typically strong seasonal business performance. MLP Group achieved stable revenue levels in the Wealth and Life & Health competence fields, which is by no means a given in light of the prevailing market conditions.

Within the Wealth competence field, the strong performance in wealth management more than offset weaker developments in real estate brokerage and loans and mortgages. The latter was affected by rising long-term interest rates, which are highly relevant for property financing conditions.

Within the Life & Health competence field, the old-age provision business was slightly weaker, while the broker of health insurance policies performed slightly more strongly. In the Others competence field, revenue also remained stable. The continued strong trust that our clients place in our consulting services is also reflected in the key figures. These are of great importance for future revenue development.

It is also encouraging that we were able to keep assets under management stable at EUR 65.2 billion despite the temporary downturn in capital markets. At the same time, we recorded net inflows in the first quarter despite the challenging conditions in capital markets.

Naturally, we must report the assets under management to you today as at 31st of March. However, as is well known, the stock indices have since risen significantly again and accordingly so should have the client portfolios managed by us.

Let me also briefly turn to our other key figures. We increased the non-life insurance premium volume to a new all-time high of EUR 859 million. The multiyear perspective also shows how consistently we have been growing in this area. We have long since established a significant position in the non-life insurance market. This provides our business with both stability and growth.

You can find the current income statement on Slide 7. In the first 3 months of 2026, our group increased EBIT to a new all-time high of EUR 41.3 million, reflecting the positive development in total revenue alongside consistently disciplined cost management. Despite the almost complete absence of performance-based compensations in asset management following the downturn in capital markets, we were able to grow EBIT. This once again underlines the resilience of our strategically developed business model.

At the same time, there remains significant growth potentials, which I will address shortly when discussing our forecast and planning. If you now take a brief look at the right-hand side of the slide, you will see the key figures underpinning our strong balance sheet. Compared with the '25 reporting date, equity increased from EUR 585 million to EUR 615 million. The regulatory capital ratio stood at 17.8% as of 31st of March. The liquidity coverage ratio or LCR, which measures short-term liquidity, including under stress scenarios and thus overall resilience stands at 781%, well above regulatory requirements, which stipulate only a ratio of 100%.

For the financial year 2026, MLP expects the continuation of its midterm growth path and confirms its EBIT forecast of EUR 100 million to EUR 110 million. The projected increase in earnings in 2026 is to be supported by rising revenue across all 3 competence fields, Wealth, Life & Health and Property & Casualty. Accordingly, we also confirm our revenue forecast for these 3 competence fields today. Performance-based compensation, which we generate in the Wealth competence field is traditionally forecasted conservatively and is therefore only included to a limited extent.

Our midterm planning for the end of 2028 also remains unchanged and is reaffirmed today. We continue to plan for EBIT of EUR 140 million to EUR 155 million with total revenue of EUR 1.3 billion to EUR 1.4 billion. The same applies here. Performance-based compensation, which, as mentioned, is also heavily influenced by external factors, has been incorporated conservatively and therefore, only to a limited extent.

By contrast, the MLP Group has firmly factored a significant increase in key figures into the planning, namely in assets under management and the non-life insurance premium volume. The strategic realization of potential in consulting for family clients, the targeted expansion of the corporate client business as well as a multi-asset approach for institutional and high net worth clients are set to drive continuing growth across all competence fields.

The planned substantial increase in earnings will also be supported by the digitalization strategy and in particular, by artificial intelligence applications, which are expected to lead to continuous efficiency gains and improvements in client support as well for our consultants. This is complemented by continued disciplined and rigorous cost management.

Ladies and gentlemen, I will now move to the summary. First, high-quality financial consulting complemented by the targeted and responsible use of artificial intelligence remains the key success factor in serving private and corporate clients and thus for our further business development.

Secondly, in the first quarter, we have already achieved a significant portion of our forecasted full year earnings and have continued our successful midterm path without compromise. Thirdly, we are very well positioned to systematically realize the identified growth potentials in the coming years and to achieve our midterm planning through to the end of 2028. And finally, we remain ambitious.

Thank you for your attention and your interest. I would now [Audio Gap].

[Operator Instructions] And the first question comes from Simon Keller from NuWays.

Regarding the Wealth competence to start with this, can you share the actual number of net AUM inflows in Q1? And also what level of performance fees did you recognize?

Yes. Simon, the net inflows in the first quarter was EUR 0.2 billion. And the performance fees in the first quarter were around EUR 500 million -- apologies, [ EUR 0.5 million ]. Of course.

All right. Yes, I hope it's okay that I go through the questions one by one. Thanks for the first part. Secondly, sales outlook remains positive for Life & Health and our momentum has rather been soft over the last, yes, probably 12 months. So I'm wondering what gives you confidence that this picks up rather near term, especially, yes, of course, in light of the recent performance? And maybe you had even an indication that April already did show a pickup. Is that the case?

In Life & Health, we have, let's say, 2 different annual effects. And normally, we are a little bit stronger in Health in the first half of the year and in Life in the second half of the year. That's more or less what we see right now also in the figures. Health is quite okay with the positive deviation.

Life & Health is still a little bit to go due to the fact that the effect and the lever in the second half is bigger for Life. This gives us the optimism that we will reach our positive target of positive numbers there in the second half. We also have some, let's say, motivation for our sales guys for the second half. But we're -- we know that we're starting with a minus right now, but we are confident that we will close this gap.

All right. Understood. And my last topic is personnel costs and other OpEx because this quarter did show some growth, although modest. Yes. And I mean, evidently, margins are still up year-over-year. I'm wondering, yes, can you comment a bit on maybe any phasing effects in the cost base and how we should think about costs, especially personnel and other OpEx over the coming quarters?

Difficult questions, by the way. Yes, what we expect is definitely -- let's start the other way around. There, we also see 2 issues. We see coming from the inflation, especially in other costs, we see discussions with market participants who would like to raise their fees, their costs, for example, for IT. There's interesting discussions ongoing. And there, definitely, we are pushing that we can under -- our costs there under control like we also did in the past years.

That's an ongoing task and definitely not easy in the environment we are right now. On the personnel side, we are -- and we had increased headcount in some areas, for example, in sales in FERI, for example, also in the banking area. And therefore, you see the deviation to the first quarter 2025 there, and this deviation will be smaller in the next quarters.

Therefore, to keep it short, it will be a consistent and ongoing struggle to keep the [ costs ], but we also definitely are positive there that we will continue the track record of the last years.

[Operator Instructions] And we have one more question from Jochen Schmitt from Metzler.

I have 3 questions, please. Firstly, on Deutschland.Immobilien on the goodwill impairment booked in Q1, even though it is minor in size, I can well understand that you adjusted the input parameters in the impairment test such as interest rates, but I had expected you to have higher headroom against any further impairment charge following the significant charge that you booked last year. Could you please comment on that? And then 2 questions on MLP Banking.

If I understood correctly from the presentation materials, the CET1 ratio of the MLP Financial Holding increased by 120 basis points during the quarter. What is the reason for that? Because loan volume seems to be largely unchanged? And third question, compared to your medium-term plans, did MLP Banking develop better than you had expected in Q1? These are my questions.

Goodwill, the Deutschland.Immobilien, first question, as you know, we still had a goodwill of EUR 2.5 million for Deutschland.Immobilien. And we would like to use any opportunity we have to reduce the goodwill further. Therefore, the increase in interest rates gave us the possibility to increase -- to decrease -- sorry, to decrease again, the goodwill and therefore, have another goodwill depreciation.

As we all know, there always are some room to maneuver, but our interest is to keep the goodwill on a low level or to reduce the goodwill. And therefore, let's say, the interest rate increase gave us the opportunity to do so. Banking, yes, you're right. The banking results are a little bit better than we expected in Q1. Coming especially out of the interest rate, the interest rates, we expected a decrease in interest rate -- in ECB interest rates. That's our idea for the plan, and we all know that hasn't happened.

And therefore, the interest result, not the interest income, but the interest result was a little bit better than planned, number one. And number two, and now to the CET ratio, this is a little complicated. If you look backwards to all the quarterly reported figures, you will always find out that our CET ratio at year-end is lower and then jumps in the first quarter of the following year.

I try to keep it short, but it is something which is special to the finance holding structure of MLP because at the year-end, our companies who earn money and therefore, increase their book value and this book value is seen at risk in the calculation of the BaFin. And therefore, at year-end, when, for example, Finanzberatung has high results, these higher results reduce our CET ratio, but the profit out of these higher results are at the year-end, not allowed to increase on the other side, our equity. And therefore, this is a typical effect. At year-end, our CET ratio is lower, and then it rises again in the first quarter. I hope this gave you a little hint. This is nothing unnormal.

[Operator Instructions] And we have one follow-up question from Simon Keller from NuWays.

Yes, one follow-up question indeed. And that's on Altersvorsorgedepot, which has been approved. What's your take on the final outcome? Are you satisfied with how things have developed?

Yes, we are happy. I -- let's say, first of all, we are happy as being part of the -- let's say, I think we see it positive for Germany, we see it positive for the Altersvorsorge in total. Obviously, there are some parts which we would have seen differently. But in general, we see as positive. And we also see it positive for MLP. It is something which adds on the strength of MLP consulting.

It adds something to the development of MLP in the last years, the increase in assets under management, in wealth management. And therefore, we, like many other market participants are preparing to consult our existing customers, but also new customers in this area, and we see this will give us a positive impact for '27.

So at the moment, there are no further questions.

Okay. So let's wait a few seconds, but if there are no further questions coming in, I would like to thank you for taking part in our conference call. But I see we have a further question now, okay?

Yes, there's one more question from Gerhard Schwarz from Baader Bank.

I wanted to ask about your revenue guidance for the current fiscal year and the mix, in particular, as in the first quarter, wealth management revenues in the consulting field, wealth management was up. You said just slightly, but actually, it's a decent growth and your guidance still is for unchanged development here for the year. And what do you expect here for the further progression in the wealth management consulting field?

The second question is about the real estate brokerage and loans and mortgages competence field where you say you expect a slight increase for the year, whereas we saw that the trend in the first quarter was down. And you also mentioned that higher interest rates here at the long end are starting to bite a little bit. So is there any chance that this might see a reversal that you see not good performance here in the interest rate sensitive business during the year?

You're welcome. Thanks, Mr. Schwarz, for your questions. Starting with Wealth, if we take the, let's say, the overall competence field, we had a small increase of 1% in the area of, let's say, wealth management. Altogether, we definitely have a growth of 6%. And it's -- our -- let's say, our forecast for the full year is for the whole competence fields with a slight positive -- with a positive outlook there, which is then a mixture of the wealth management, which we expect more or less with the continuation of what we see right now.

And then we come to, let's say, a little bit more the tricky area of real estate and financing. At the beginning of the year, we were a little bit more positive there, even stronger with a double plus. Now we decreased this to a single plus, and we know that this will be challenging. It definitely depends a little bit, let's say, how the overall interest situation continues for the rest of the year.

We don't expect -- our expectation at the moment is that the long-term interest rate stays more or less on the level where it is right now. And what you normally see when interest rate goes up, first of all, you see in the moment the interest rate goes up, you see an increase in demand. What we, by the way, saw, for example, in April, and then it should stabilize a little bit more there. Therefore, I would say, yes, we believe that we can increase compared to what we saw in the first quarter, the numbers there, but this definitely is challenging to reach this plus. And this -- therefore, we reduced this from double plus.

At the moment, there is no further questions.

So if there are no further questions, now I would like to thank you for taking part in our conference call. And of course, you can reach us if any further questions arrive later on. Please allow me the following indication. Today, we will also publish the invitation to our Annual General Meeting. You will find all the details regarding our AGM on our website later in the afternoon. Having said this, I wish you a good afternoon. Thank you, and goodbye.

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon from MLP headquarters in Wiesloch, and welcome to our Analyst and Investor conference. I also welcome our CEO, Dr. Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg; and our CFO, Reinhard Loose. Before we move into our presentation, I will give you some information on today's set-up. And after our presentation, we are happy to answer your questions. [Operator Instructions] And now I hand over to Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. A warm welcome to our online analyst conference. I would like to start with the most important news upfront. The MLP Group can look back on a highly successful financial year 2025. The successful operating business development of the past year once again underlines the strategic strength of MLP Group. We operate with a deliberately integrated setup that secures stability and enables sustainable growth.

This is strongly supported by our innovative use of artificial intelligence. First of all, please allow me to provide some more details on the development of MLP over the past 12 months using the key figures that are most important to us. Firstly, at EUR 1.08 billion, recorded the highest revenue volume in MLP's history to date for the 12th time in a row, by the way. The proportion of recurring sales revenue is now 72% and is an important indicator of our sustained earnings stability.

The assets under management in the MLP Group and the non-life insurance portfolio are material factors, which we were also able to increase to new record levels. Secondly, we recorded EBIT of EUR 87.9 million. This figure already includes the one-off effect resulting from the focusing of our real estate business. Without this effect, we would have recorded EBIT of EUR 97.1 million in the financial year 2025.

We are now forecasting EBIT of EUR 100 million to EUR 110 million for 2026 and are therefore, resolutely continuing on the path towards our midterm plan of recording EBIT of EUR 140 million to EUR 155 million by the end of '28. And thirdly, we remain an attractive share for our shareholders, not only offering potential for further share price growth, but also paying an appropriate dividend for the financial year '25, the Executive Board is proposing a dividend of EUR 0.36 per share to the Supervisory Board and the Annual General Meeting, which once again corresponds to a dividend yield of 5%.

Accordingly, we are maintaining the high level of the previous year's dividend. On the one hand, the MLP Group enjoys a very high degree of stability, which is of enormous importance, particularly in the face of challenging macroeconomic developments, most recently also in view of the war in Iran and the possible consequences for the economy.

On the other hand, our unique business model in which we support and advise private, institutional and corporate clients on all financial matters offers significant growth potential. Our clients and our consultants are also increasingly benefiting from our successful digital strategy in which artificial intelligence already plays a significant role today and will become an even more important factor for success in the future.

We primarily use AI where it directly benefits our clients and our consultants, always acting in a targeted and responsible manner. Artificial intelligence will dramatically change our society and our economy in the coming years. This is already recognizable today and is irreversible. Nobody will be able to escape this development in the MLP Group. We have developed great innovative strength in this area and are utilizing the massive opportunities, both strategically and operationally.

At the same time, it is always clear that our clients must ultimately benefit from our efforts. We see AI as an opportunity, not a threat. That is why we are already integrating it into our processes on a broad scale. Allow me to provide some concrete examples. For some time now, we have been successfully using a sophisticated AI agent at our subsidiary, DOMCURA to process non-life insurance claims fully automatically for our clients.

And most recently, we have introduced another AI agent in this area, which can handle full automated policy optimization and conclusion on request. In doing so, we are entering in the field of genuine AI broker while continuing to combine this with all the benefits of MLP's personal and comprehensive consulting. AI is also enabling us to significantly enhance the overall effectiveness of our consultants for our clients.

Indeed, AI agents will support them in many aspects of their discerning work from arranging appointments all the way to producing documentation. Above all, this means more time for actual client consultation. This has also made us even more attractive to young people who want to pursue financial advisory as a profession, highly skilled in terms of expertise personally close to the client and maximally supported by AI in all administrative manners.

In terms of use and further development of AI applications, we are already positioned in such a way that we do not have to fear competitors that rely entirely on AI should they gain a foothold in the market at all. Regardless of this, one thing remains true when it comes to the key and sometimes complex financial matters, people want to be advised by people. Empathy, a blind spot of every AI system is more important than ever in this context.

With this positioning, the MLP Group benefits disproportionately from other important trends compared to the market alongside personal asset succession, meaning the transfer of family wealth to the next generation, demographic developments are creating an immense need for financial provision and in turn, increasing demand for consulting and management services.

And last but not least, the increase of environmental risks, in particular, the growing climate and cyber risk is leading to greater demand for cover, including complex cover among both private and corporate clients. In short, the MLP Group has established an excellent position to successfully continuing its growth path in an increasingly AI-driven world.

AI acts as an accelerator for our unique business model, which has long combined pronounced stability with major growth opportunities. Before I now hand over to Reinhard Loose, who will give -- go into greater detail regarding the business figures for '25, I would like to thank -- to take this opportunity to express my sincere thanks to all MLP consultants as well as all employees in the group. They have all achieved a great deal for our clients.

Thank you very much, Uwe. You can find an overview of revenue development on Slide 5 of the presentation. In the financial year 2025, MLP increased its total revenue to a new high of EUR 1.08 billion. The share of recurring sales revenue was 72% at the end of '25, a sign of the impressive long-term stability of our business model. Across the MLP Group, we generate recurring revenue from the continuous high-quality service we provide to our clients, particularly in the Property and Casualty and Wealth competence fields.

The remaining share of sales revenue is generated from our new business, particularly in the Life and Health competence field. The group recorded revenue growth of 8% to EUR 223 million in the Property and Casualty competence field while revenue in the Life and Health competence field remained largely stable at EUR 303 million as did revenue in the Wealth competence field at EUR 510 million.

The increase in the Property and Casualty area, which comprises the non-life insurance businesses, both corporate and private clients can be attributed in part to the fact that both client groups have a high demand for professional insurance coverage. Awareness of climate, cyber and other risks is increasing.

In the Life and Health competence field, which comprises old-age provision and health insurance was a continued high level of interest in high-quality health care services, particularly in the area of private health insurance, but also in occupational health insurance schemes. With regard to occupational pension schemes, on the other hand, there was a certain reluctance among employers to introduce new concepts for their employees.

As expected, the interest rate business in the Wealth competence field declined due to the interest rate cuts by the European Central Bank, while loans in mortgages and real estate brokerage were able to profit from precisely this. Wealth Management revenue to which both MLP's private client business and the consulting services provided to institutional and high net worth clients by its subsidiary, FERI, contributed to remain stable.

Performance-based compensation totaled EUR 10.7 million, significantly below the previous year's figure of EUR 33.9 million, reflecting developments on the capital markets during the year. Performance-based compensation is accrued for the positive performance of investment concepts and is largely recognized in the results. Excluding this performance-based compensation, Wealth Management revenue would have risen by 7% in the financial year '25.

Here, too, it is clear that we have successfully earned the trust of our clients. The growing and continuing trust in our consulting services displayed by our clients is also reflected in the key figures. These are extremely important for our future revenue development. It is therefore all the more pleasing that we were able to increase assets under management to a new high of EUR 65.9 billion. To the best of our knowledge, this makes us the second largest bank independent asset manager in Germany today.

Let's now take a quick look at our key figures. We were also able to increase the managed non-life insurance premium volume to another record high at EUR 809 million. This is roughly equivalent to the size of the midsized non-life insurer in the German market. You can find in a bridged version of the current income statement on Slide 8. The MLP Group's EBIT was EUR 87.9 million in the financial year 2025.

As roughly communicated in November, this is lower than in 2024, although significantly higher than the '23 figures when we recorded EUR 70.7 million. EBIT for 2025 includes the one-off effect from the focusing of the real estate business at the subsidiary Deutschland.Immobilien, which has already been communicated and processed, amounting to minus EUR 9.2 million. Without this effect, EBIT would have totaled EUR 97.1 million.

Despite otherwise successful operating performance and stable administrative costs, EBIT development in 2025 was also characterized by a significantly lower earnings contribution from performance-based compensation and lower income from the interest rate business as previously reported. Group net profit for the financial year '25 is EUR 55.7 million. Shareholders' equity rose to EUR 585 million as of the 31st of December 2025. The core capital ratio for the financial holding group was a solid 16.6%.

The liquidity coverage ratio, LCR, also serves as a benchmark for the short-term liquidity situation in stress scenarios and is therefore, an indicator of resilience. At 972%, it is also well above the 100% minimum required by regulatory authorities. For the financial year '25, the Executive Board at MLP proposes a constant dividend of EUR 0.36 per share.

The dividend payout ratio will then be almost 71% of net profit and therefore, in terms of dividend continuity, even very slightly above the announced corridor of 50% to 70%. The dividend yield remains at just over 5%, and this is, therefore, another good argument that speaks in favor of our share. We will discuss our significant business potential, which is above all reflected in our midterm outlook in more detail later.

Let me start with our forecast. MLP is anticipating EBIT of EUR 100 million to EUR 110 million for the financial year 2026. This is based on the continuation of the successful operating business development, the further intensified use of artificial intelligence and continued disciplined cost management.

The forecasted earnings growth in 2026 is expected to be fueled in particular by rising sales revenue in all 3 competence fields, Wealth, Life and Health, and Property and Casualty. The performance-based compensation that we received in the Wealth competence field are traditionally considered cautiously and therefore, only included to a limited extent. And with that, I hand over once again to Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg.

Thank you very much, Reinhard. I would now like to give you an insight into our strategic developments in the MLP Group. As I already mentioned at the start, within the scope of our digitalization strategy, we are driving forward with use of artificial intelligence throughout the group at a considerable pace, yet always responsibly, always with a clear focus on delivering value to clients.

With the help of our subsidiary, DOMCURA, for example, we have introduced a fully automated analysis and policy purchase process in MLP's private client business for non-life insurance products requiring little consultation and are gradually expanding it further. The process is illustrated here on the slide.

Once the consultant has initiated the process during the client meeting and the client has uploaded their insurance policy from another provider, for example, a residential building policy, the AI takes over from there. The AI agent analyzes the existing contract, requests any missing data if necessary and offers the client a new contract optimized for their needs, which they can then also sign digitally. The AI agent then takes over again issuing a new policy and canceling the old one.

There are generally no acquisition costs in this field. AI then takes care of everything else, including for the consultant. MLP consultants are continuously kept informed by the AI about the current status and can, of course, be contacted by the clients at any time if needed. This new AI methodology at MLP is not just an example of how we are already well equipped to handle potential competition, particularly with AI brokers.

It also demonstrates how pronounced the transfer of expertise within the MLP Group has become, creating tangible added value for both clients and consultants. However, it's also important for the personal client relationship to remain the key element at MLP. After all, it is the linchpin of our consulting services because ultimately, people still want to be looked after by people, and this is good news. AI can also should provide support, but ultimately, if it's people, it is people who make the difference.

And this is exactly what we have focused on with an AI agent system that underpins our innovative approach to artificial intelligence. Slide 12 shows an overview of this. Essentially, we are organizing the interaction of multiple AI agents so as to reduce the administrative burden on our consultants in MLP's private client business. The focus on the ongoing implementation and expansion is on client data, contracts and products, specialist knowledge as well as consulting expertise.

Thanks to the AI agent system, our clients have a digital contact person available around the clock for self-services and information for our clients, which is embedded in the established MLP financial home and we already have a comprehensive digital overview of their contracts and assets and our consultants have access to a digital assistant in the form of an AI agent system to support them in their day-to-day work integrated into the existing consultant portal, their central tool for personalized client support.

Indeed, AI agents will support our consultants in many aspects of their demanding work from daily planning and meeting preparation to tariff calculation and applications as well as follow-up work. In short, our consultants can practice financial consulting more than ever as a true profession, highly skilled in terms of expertise, personally close to the client and maximally supported by AI in all administrative matters.

With AI as an accelerator in our unique business model, we will benefit greatly from opportunities in our markets. This is something that is already visible today. Wealth Management, for example, continues to show great potential. According to a recent study, some 700,000 households in Germany have liquid assets of between EUR 0.5 million and EUR 3 million. In addition, the authors of a study are forecasting annual growth of 4% to 5% for these assets.

This generally results in a growing need for competent advice. This increasing demand for professional Wealth Management can be seen in our client groups. And we have long since established a position in MLP's private client business, where we are sought-after contact partner. It is a central part of our service commitment for our clients as we see ourselves as the dialogue partner for all our clients in all financial matters.

The successful expansion of Wealth Management among MLP private clients to date underlines this while at the same time, revealing further potential. In the time of 2020 to 2025, we reached annual growth rates of 15% in the assets under management by MLP consultants, amounting to almost EUR 15 billion today. In that same period, annual net cash inflows showed annual growth rates of 16%, amounting to EUR 1.3 billion in '25.

It is also important to note that almost half of these net cash inflows came from saving plans. These are, therefore, deficits that are very likely to be recurring. With a view to our midterm planning, we can state that this part of Wealth Management, in particular, will make a substantial contribution to the further growth of our assets under management in the MLP Group.

We expect another strong contribution in the businesses with our clients to come from growth in alternative investments managed by the experts at FERI. Here, too, our highly developed positioning meets significant market potential. The proportion of alternative investments in institutional portfolios throughout the market is more than 30%. Added to this is the fact that according to market forecast, investment growth in alternative investments will likely reach 10% in each of the next 4 years.

FERI has a particularly strong position in the highly relevant fields of hedge funds, volatility strategies and private markets. Our headquarters in Baden-Wurttemberg are home to what we believe to be the largest bank independent research and investment team for hedge funds in Germany. We recently announced the cooperation between this team and Goldman Sachs for the launch of 2 new UCITS for hedge funds with net inflows of more than EUR 80 million in the first 3 months.

This alone shows that what a unique position FERI has achieved in this field. This is also clearly evident in volatility strategies. The responsible team delivers market-leading performance, providing the best calling card for the sales initiative already launched in neighboring European countries. In particular, a cooperation with Citywire as the industry-leading use and conference provider will help us to make further progress here.

In this context, the 3 active FERI funds for volatility strategies, which already have a combined volume of more than EUR 3 billion and have received numerous awards will be marketed at high-profile specialist events. And FERI is just professionally positioned in the field of private markets with expertise that is highly visible in the market as well as experience that has been built up over decades.

I would now like to turn to another strategic focus for the MLP Group over the coming years, the expansion of our corporate client business. With more than 27,000 corporate and institutional clients, this is already of great importance for the MLP Group. The potential in this growth area is considerable. Among the roughly 3 million micro companies in Germany, our MLP consultants focus is, in particular, on freelancers such as doctors with their own practices and lawyers or tax advisers with their own firms.

We have also systemized another still young field in our corporate client business with a highly digitalized approach through our recently founded commercial insurance broker, RVM SmartProtect. This digital platform draws on the expertise and specialists of the RVM Group. But unlike industrial insurance broker RVM, it is aimed at commercial clients, meaning small and medium-sized enterprises usually abbreviated as SMEs.

RVM SmartProtect acts as a professional point of contact with highly digitalized processes that arrange insurance cover for such companies. The market-wide potential the area of commercial clients totals more than 400,000 companies nationwide. MLP consultants that are also keen to become active in the corporate client business can take a very targeted approach in the commercial insurance field with the latest offer.

As they already have their own private client base, which often includes managing directors and company owners, they are also able to gain a foothold when advising those companies. We have set up the internal structures and processes for this. This is, therefore, also a clear example of strategic integration within our group. For larger companies, our industrial clients, we have an established point of contact in the RVM Group.

The group of industrial companies with annual revenues of more than EUR 10 million amounts to just under 80,000 in Germany. This potential is addressed by RVM, which is well established in the German market, thanks to its experience and expertise. And here, too, we see revenue synergies within the MLP Group, particularly with regard to occupational pension scheme clients and vice versa.

A cross-divisional approach through which we unlock further potential within the MLP Group is also reflected in the expansion of MLP offerings to the corporate client business. We are the largest European -- German -- excuse me, German occupational pension broker. Our expertise in the area of pension provision has long been valued not only in the private client business, but also in the corporate client business.

From this leading position, we plan to increase sale revenue in the area of occupational pension schemes with annual growth rates of 19% until '28. In terms of occupational health insurance schemes, we are planning an annual growth of 46% in new business over the same period. Corporate provision is playing an increasingly important part at companies looking to attract and retain skilled professionals.

In the Property and Casualty, the P&C competence field, we are aiming to increase our non-life insurance portfolio in relation to the corporate clients business brokered by MLP consultants with annual growth rates of 13% until '28. Here too, we make equal use of our expertise for corporate clients. Last but not least, we have also set ourselves a goal in the Wealth competence field of further developing the MLP client base with regards to the corporate client business.

A key step will be the introduction of a Wealth deposit account for corporate clients. This means that funds from the companies we serve that are intended for medium-term investments can be deployed far more profitably than in overnight deposit accounts. And the step of its kind grants MLP Group access to further and generally higher investment volumes. Not least against this backdrop, it identified market potential and further optimized positioning in the MLP Group.

We are happy to confirm the planned continuation of our midterm growth path is expected to bring the group to EBIT of EUR 140 million to EUR 155 million and total revenue of EUR 1.3 billion to EUR 1.4 billion by the end of '28. The targeted expansion of the corporate client business and FERI's multi-asset approach for institutional and high net worth clients are particular focal points here.

Overall, we are anticipating growth in all competence fields, Wealth, Life and Health and Property and Casualty. Performance-based compensation at FERI, which can only be planned and influenced to a limited extent, are therefore only considered to a limited extent here. Our planning also envisage a significant expansion of our key figures.

Accordingly, we are planning to increase assets under management from EUR 65.9 billion to EUR 75 billion up to EUR 81 billion and the non-life insurance portfolio from EUR 0.8 billion to EUR 1.0 billion to EUR 1.1 billion. Achieving the targeted significant increase in earnings will be also supported by the effects of our consistent digitalization strategy and in particular, by the extensive use of AI throughout the entire MLP Group, as already outlined.

Alongside noticeable improvements that benefit clients, this also results in ongoing efficiency gains. Our planning for 2028 is complemented by continued disciplined cost management. Ladies and gentlemen, allow me now to move on the summary. Firstly, our strategically developed positioning proves its impressive resilience and growth potential, and this applies in particular to difficult market phases and also to the processing of one-off effects, which can never be completely ruled out.

It is precisely in such phases that the resilience of our earnings becomes evident, a hallmark of our unique business model that clearly sets up apart from others in the market. Secondly, artificial intelligence as a part of our digital strategy is already an accelerator in our unique business model and is set to come even more so in the future. We have developed great innovative strength in the use of AI. Our action always aims to deliver benefits for our discerning clients.

This also puts us in a strong position with regard to the competition, both existing and in the future. Thirdly, our confirmed planning for the end of '28 underpins our sustainable midterm growth path. In the coming years, we will benefit even more from our approach to strategically drive increase in client assets under management. The same applies to the further development of our corporate client business as another strategic focus of our growth agenda. Many thanks for your time and your interest. We are now happy to answer your questions.

Thank you very much, Uwe and Reinhard. And now we are happy to answer your questions. [Operator Instructions] And now let's start with the first question that we have here. We have some questions from Olaf Hein. He wrote us the question, so I will just read them out here. The first question is, are you aware that the dividend of EUR 0.36 yields only to 5.2% because the share price development is rather disappointing.

Yes, I take over this question. I think we all agree that we -- everyone here also in the room is not totally happy with the share price development, Mr. Hein. But nevertheless, that's the fact where we are right now. We are working where we can, especially that means increasing our EBIT figure.

And in the meantime, I think it's very interesting for the ones who now want to invest at this moment that he has a dividend yield of 5%, which I personally think is not the worst way to invest money. And then additionally, with the idea of also growing share price. But nevertheless, we are aware of this, and we all hope that our share price will go up in the future, for example, due to this reason.

Okay. Then we will turn on -- go on with the next question. The next question from Olaf Hein is what is the basis for the optimistic EBIT forecast for 2026.

It's a good question if it's an optimistic EBIT forecast. If I, again, might answer this question. As I said before, if you take out the onetime effect for Deutschland.Immobilien, we would have reached an EBIT of EUR 97 million. And this EUR 97 million, obviously is very close to the EUR 100 million.

That means the step to reaching EUR 100 million is extremely low. And in the past years, we always saw increases, for example, in our main -- in the asset under management in the area of Property and Casualty. And therefore, this, I think, gives enough argument that I personally think more than EUR 100 million is not optimistic.

And perhaps may I add to this question coming from the top line. So as we all see in the political discussion in Germany, the sensitivity for old age provisioning in private and occupational schemes is stepping forward. So it means this all will help generally in this sector.

And by the way, if you look to our cost discipline, we have seen in the last years, especially if you compare '25 and '24, it also demonstrates that we are, on the one hand, are able to go forward, as I mentioned, for example, with digital projects and AI projects and other side, keep costs at a very reasonable level.

And this together with our step we announced in November to reorganize our real estate business to concentrate on the broking of real estate mainly will also lower the risk significantly and also will help to make this segment as soon as possible, we expect that for this year '26 profitable again. And this together with the remarks Reinhard made, I think, should demonstrate that the new guidance should be very reasonable for '26.

And then we go on with the third question from Olaf Hein, and it's about M&A projects. Are any M&A projects in the pipeline?

Obviously, we can't answer this right now. I would answer, I think, the typical sentence we always have at the time that we are, as always, in talks what's going on in the market. You should not expect in the next few days something like this. And therefore, we can't give you a precise answer there.

One additional remark. As you know, Mr. Hein, that one of the targets we had was the Industrial Broker segment, where we made very good steps with our RVM acquisition, which is, I think, now very well established in MLP group and going ahead in market development.

Here, we stopped for the time being because of prices, which have been -- came up step by step, where to our viewpoint, much too high, and this makes no sense because we want to have meaningful prices and good culture and good competency to buy. So that means here, we are more in a waiting position not to make silly things. But for sure, as Reinhard mentioned, we are looking carefully what is going on in general, but also in this part of the market.

Then we go on with the next 2 questions from Zafer Ruzgar from Pareto Securities, also in written form here. So I just read it out. Property and Casualty is the clearest growth engine today and your midterm plan implies a certain CAGR acceleration here. How much of that growth trajectory should already be visible in 2026? The same applies for Life and Health, where growth was broadly stable over the past years.

I will start again, if I might. The Property and Casualty business now for 20 years in a row grow year-by-year with a growth rate between, I would say, 3% to 8%. Normally, this year was quite -- this year, meaning 2025 was quite positive year. Therefore, in -- altogether during the last years, we had something like a CAGR of 7% in this area -- sorry, 13%, but our projection for the next year is only between 7% to 11%.

And this is nothing like a hockey stick, but we expect that this growth rate will be seen year by year and therefore, also in '26. It's a little bit more, let's say, less stable, the development in the Life and Health area. There -- this year, we had a very strong year in Health. Life was more or less stable. For 2026, we expect a little more growth in Life and less growth in Health. But nevertheless, altogether, we expect growth in this whole segment.

I hope this answers the question. Then we will go on with the next question from [indiscernible], and I will read it out again. Wealth revenue was down 2% reported, but you mentioned that Wealth Management revenue would have risen 7%, excluding performance-based compensation, which dropped sharply to around EUR 10 million. What does the guidance assume? What is the expected normalized level in performance fees?

For the next year, we -- in our plans, we have a performance fee, which is a little bit lower than we were seen in 2025 and '25, just to remember the question, EUR 10.7 million performance fee was finally reported figure there. And therefore, it is a little bit lower for '26 and the next following years.

The expected growth rate, again, if I see the development of assets under management, perhaps in the last years, the CAGR there was around 9% which obviously is not totally but closely linked to the revenues there. And our plan expects a little lower growth rate for the next years, but nevertheless, a growth rate which is more above 5%.

Then we will go on with the next question. It comes from Klaus Breitenbach from ODDO, and he's asking about our expectations for interest income in 2026.

I like this question, especially in the world we are right now, I would say it changes day by day, depending on what's going on in the world. And to be a little bit more serious, obviously, especially our interest income is -- has a link to what is the ECB rate due to the fact that we have a very high liquidity and for example, right now today, EUR 1 billion is parked at the ECB, and therefore, it depends if the ECB rate would go up or would go down.

At the moment, in our plans, we still -- or we have expected at that time, a decline in ECB rate. If you would ask me today, I would see more like the market, an uprise in ECB rates. But nevertheless, in our plans is reflected one little decline of ECB rate.

Then we have the announcement of Simon Keller from NuWays that he wants to ask his questions verbally. So please turn on your camera and microphone and then we will answer your questions.

I have 3. Firstly, on Iran, do you see any impact on your Property and Casualty insurance business, for example, clients delaying decisions? And if you see or saw that, did this normalize already? Secondly, could you provide an outlook on personnel costs and other OpEx for '26?

And my third question might be linked to this, and it's regarding the guidance because I noticed basically the implied growth rate for adjusted EBIT is 3% to 13%, which to me seems rather conservative, especially as basically '25 already had rather low performance fees. So also looking at the Q4 growth rate of over 20%, is there any costs that we should know about that you have baked into your '26 EBIT guidance?

So thank you, Mr. Keller. I will start with the first one. So it's still new, this crisis in Iran. And for sure, it affects many companies directly or indirectly. But we can't see any direct correlation so far on our P&C business. In opposite, there's some general movement is the more tough competition and cost pressure is the more sensitive, especially the midsized companies are also on a proper risk protection.

That means proper means good risk protection on one hand, but also reasonable prices. This is a positive development we are seeing since some years, and we also realize that RVM is in a very good position. This is the reason why we have the growth rates Reinhard just spoke of.

The counter effect to some extent is for sure, if there are bankruptcies or whatever of companies or takeovers of firms by bigger groups, there could be also some pressure on existing contracts. But overall, we -- for the time being, we see a very good perspective for this still quite young business for MLP with a very specific service level we can offer.

I take over the OpEx question and answering this, allow me to look back to '25. In '25, we have all together a stable development of the OpEx, especially if you take out the onetime effect for the depreciation of Deutschland.Immobilien that then we have a 0% development there.

And I think this is a good basis, especially if you look even a little bit more in detail, you will find out that in '25, we have 10% growth in IT costs due to the fact that we are investing for example, in AI, that means we were able to save in other areas. And obviously, we intend to continue with this for '26, we did not plan 0 development -- percent development, but only a little growth rate there. It's our target. And I think we have a good track record there to keep our costs under control. And for the EBIT...

Conservative.

Yes, exactly for the EBIT forecast for '26, I think this is the counterpart of my -- this is the same answer what I answered Mr. Hein, I think it's reasonable. I do not think it's too optimistic. That was my answer right now. I also do not think it's too pessimistic. And therefore, obviously, I have to say it's realistic. Otherwise, we would have seen other figures there.

So then we go on with the next question, it's from Jochen Schmitt from Metzler. And he has 2 questions. The first one is on the real estate development. And he's asking, could you give some information about the remaining development projects? How much is the total project volume, the premarketing or disposal rate and the progress on construction? When do you expect the ongoing projects to leave your accounts?

Right now, we have on our balance sheet 4 projects, which are, at the moment, only real estate, and that means there is no building. And therefore, the question is how do we proceed with this? Do we sell this as project with the allowance to build on this, which makes it a little bit more valuable. Do we start the business? Do we start the project? This is not finally decided.

Therefore, I can't give you the final project volume due to the fact that there are many ways where we can continue on -- how we can continue in the next weeks and months. When do we expect to leave the accounts? Also, this depends on will we sell them before the project development really starts or not. If not, if we start the project development, then we expect to see them leaving our balance sheet around 2030.

Okay. I hope this answers the questions. And then we will go on with next question is from Gerhard Schwarz from Baader Bank. And his question on the tax rate, which was quite high with 34.6% in full year 2025. And he's asking, what is driving the huge rises in the tax rate over the last few years? And what is kind of a normalized tax rate in our view?

Yes. Thank you. The normalized tax rate for us is 29.8%. And the reason for the variance is especially the results of Deutschland.Immobilien because the majority of our companies are in one tax group. The Deutschland.Immobilien is not, which means that we have -- if we have losses in this area, we can't deduct them from the profits on the other side. And especially you can see in this year when we have a tax rate of over 34%, it's only mainly -- the main reason is very high losses in Deutschland.Immobilien. I hope, again, this answers your question.

So then we go on with the next question from Gerhard Schwarz and he's asking, following the amortization of EUR 9.2 million of the EUR 11.7 million goodwill in Deutschland.Immobilien, is the remaining goodwill of EUR 2.5 million still under threat or considered relatively safe?

We see it as relatively safe due to the fact that we continue with something which we call project concept where we use the knowledge, which is in this company, in the group to advise or to help support developers, for example, or investors. And we have a business plan out of this area. This business plan obviously has some profitable numbers, and the profitable numbers allow us to keep this goodwill of EUR 2.5 million in our balance sheet.

Then we will go on with the next question. It's from [ Anna Friedman ]. And she's asking, can you remind me, please, about the size of performance-related fees and the net cash in the holding in 2025?

The net cash in the holding, again, I think it's my question. The net cash in the holding at the year-end was EUR 177 million. And the performance fees or the performance-based compensation for '25 was EUR 10.7 million, in the year before, it was EUR 33.9 million.

Okay. I hope this answers the question, and I hope all other questions are answered with this. And it seems that we have no further questions in the moment. And this would bring us to the end of our conference. Should you have any further questions later, please do not hesitate to contact us. A recording of our conference will be available on our website later. And so now we say thank you for your attention and wish you a good day. Goodbye from Wiesloch.

Thank you. Good bye.

Bye.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the MLP SE conference call regarding the publication of the results for the third quarter 2025 and first 9 months 2025. [Operator Instructions]

Let me now turn the floor over to your host, Pascal Locher.

Thank you very much, and welcome to MLP's conference call to our results for the third quarter and the first 9 months of 2025. With me today is our CFO, Reinhard Loose. He will guide you through the presentation. And of course, we are happy to take your questions after the presentation. So please go ahead, Reinhard.

Thank you, Pascal, and good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. First of all, please allow me to present the key message for the first 9 months of the financial year 2025. MLP remains firmly and vigorously on its good course. Even one-off effects, which need to be processed at times as it is the case this year, do not change this. We provided information on this last Friday. Within the MLP Group, we benefit more than ever from our broad and strategically interlinked positioning, which provides additional stability and at the same time, generates sustainable growth year after year. During the first 9 months of this year, we were able to achieve new highs in total revenue despite a persistently difficult macroeconomic environment. This is a remarkable achievement by our team, not least because, as I already reported at the half year stage, we have not experienced and are still not experiencing any tailwind in parts of our markets.

Businesses and consumers alike are unsettled. The U.S. President's so-called Liberation Day in particular, with the drastic tariffs shook the capital markets in April and still has an impact today. However, the lack of political decisions, the ongoing economic downturn and not least recent rising unemployment are also cause for concern. Despite operating in such a difficult environment, the MLP Group still succeeded in setting new highs in key figures for future business development. This applies to both the assets under management of EUR 64.2 billion and the managed non-life insurance premium volume of EUR 794 million. In terms of earnings before interest and taxes, EBIT, the MLP Group stands at EUR 61.1 million after 9 months in 2025, which is below the previous year's record high figure of EUR 66.4 million. In the third quarter of '25, we achieved EUR 18.3 million and thus, even slightly exceeded the very strong prior year quarter. One thing is particularly noteworthy about this development, our well-established and very successful consulting business, namely the intensive support we provide to our clients. We are their preferred dialogue partner for all financial matters.

A closer look at the previous year's comparative figure makes this particularly clear. Q3 EBIT 2024 includes significantly larger EBIT contributions from performance-based compensation at FERI and from the interest rate business of MLP Banking. This shows the enormous growth and substance that we have already achieved in the MLP Group in recent years.

As already reported, we have adjusted our EBIT forecast for the current year. This was due to changed expectations regarding the level of performance-based compensation in wealth management and the real estate development business. In addition, we are seeing a weaker than originally expected old-age provision business. As previously announced, we also intend to focus the business of our group company, Deutschland.Immobilien, and thereby making it less susceptible to risk. We will benefit from this very soon, just like from our extensive IT investments, which I talked about at the half year point. The IT investments are focused particularly on artificial intelligence, which is increasingly being integrated into our consulting services, for example, in the preparation of client meetings by our consultants. And last but not least, we'll further strengthen our position in the corporate client business, among other things, through innovative and digital companies that we have established within the MLP Group in a targeted manner and whose development we are actively advancing.

This means we are following our proven path to success. We have increased our EBIT midterm planning for 2028 to between EUR 140 million and EUR 155 million. On our way there, the current year is above all a year of transition, a year in which we have invested and focused. Regardless of the necessary responses to changing markets, our business model is so robust that we have set ourselves even more ambitious yet realistic targets for 2028. The fact that we are implementing this increase in our targets at this particular point in time once again underpins how sustainably we have positioned the MLP Group for this path.

You can find an overview of revenue development on Slide 4 of the presentation. In the first 9 months of 2025, MLP increased the total revenue to a new high of around EUR 773 million. The share of recurring revenue was almost 70% at the end of '24, highlighting the great and sustainable stability of our business model. We earn recurring revenue from the continuous high-quality service provided to our existing clients throughout the MLP Group, above all the Property & Casualty and Wealth competence fields. The remaining share of sales revenue generated from our new business, particularly in the Life & Health competence field. In the first 9 months of '25, the group grew particularly strongly in the Property & Casualty competence fields with an increase of 7%. Compared to the same period of the previous year, MLP was able to significantly increase the managed non-life insurance premium volume. MLP also achieved growth in the Life & Health competence field with an increase of 4%, driven primarily by the health insurance business included in this figure and to a lesser extent, by the old-age provision business.

After the first 9 months of the year, the Wealth competence field recorded a slight decline in revenue of minus 2%, primarily as a result of significantly lower performance-based compensation. This requires new record levels to be achieved in the underlying concepts even after market-related setbacks. Without the performance-based compensation, the Wealth competence field would also have recorded growth with the corresponding figure standing at 4%. While we recorded lower interest income as expected due to the declining interest rates, we were able to achieve double-digit growth rates in real estate brokerage and loans and mortgages. This is yet another example of the strength of our business model, which is based on multiple pillars.

Finally, a brief look at the Others competence field. As expected, revenue was slightly lower here due to the plan that strictly implemented reduction of market and business-related risks in the real estate development business. I've addressed this repeatedly during the previous quarters. And with the step announced last Friday at Deutschland.Immobilien, we now intend to end real estate project development, for which we ourselves are also responsible for construction and thus make our real estate business less risky. We will, therefore, no longer initiate such projects. Only the existing projects will be carried out by us to completion. The growing and continuing trust in our consulting services displayed by our clients is also reflected in the key figures. They are extremely important for future revenue development. It is therefore all the more pleasing that we were able to increase assets under management to a new high of EUR 64.2 billion. To the best of our knowledge, this makes us the second largest bank independent asset manager in Germany today.

Let's take a quick look at our other key figure. We were also able to increase the managed non-life insurance premium volume to another record high of EUR 794 million. As of the 30th of September, the MLP Group's consultants served 597,400 family clients. The gross number of newly acquired family clients was 15,500. We also supported a further 27,800 corporate and institutional clients in the MLP Group. The number of consultants rose to 2,121 during the course of the year, primarily as a result of our successful trainee program. This program, which is very attractive for young professionals, equips employed junior consultants at MLP with the skills they need to succeed as self-employed consultants. Indeed, 495 trainees had already joined the program by the end of September '25 since its launch in mid-'23.

You can find in the bridged version of the current income statement on Slide 8. In the first 9 months of '25, the MLP Group recorded EBIT of EUR 61.1 million, which, as already communicated, was below the exceptional strong figure from the same period last year, but significantly above the average of the past 5 years with average figures EUR 47.6 million. If you now take a brief look at the right-hand section of the slide, you will see key performance indicators that underpin our strong balance sheet. Our shareholders' equity amounts to EUR 577 million. The regulatory core capital ratio was at 17.9% as of the 30th of September, which remains significantly above the requirements of the regulatory authorities. The liquidity coverage ratio or LCR for short, serves as a benchmark for short-term liquidity and stress scenarios and is therefore an indicator of resilience. At 1,124%, it is also well above the 100% minimum required by regulatory authorities.

Let me come back to our recently revised EBIT forecast of EUR 90 million to EUR 100 million for the whole year before possible one-off effects resulting from focusing of the real estate business in terms of EBIT. However, these effects should not exceed EUR 12 million and might also even have an impact on EBIT of the financial year '25. We are more convinced than ever that we will continue our operational business success. In the current financial year, we expect sales revenue to slightly increase in the Property & Casualty competence field in particular. In the Wealth competence field, we continue to expect revenues in '25 to remain at the previous year's high level, though we remain cautious in view of the volatility of the capital markets.

Of course, it also cannot be ruled out that there may be positive capital markets developments from which we would benefit directly in the Wealth competence field. In line with developments in the first 9 months, we are now anticipating stable revenue in the Life & Health competence field, having previously expected a slight increase in revenue. Within this competence field, we continue to expect a slight increase in revenue from health insurance and expect now stable revenue from old-age provision. Irrespective of this, we are keeping a very close eye on our costs.

As already mentioned, we have slightly increased our midterm planning for the end of '28. The corridor now ranges from EUR 140 million to EUR 105 million -- EUR 155 million, sorry. Previously, it was EUR 140 million to EUR 150 million. We continue to expect total revenue of EUR 1.3 billion to EUR 1.4 billion. Performance-based compensation at FERI, which can only be planned and influenced to a limited extent, has once again been considered cautiously and therefore, only included to a limited extent in the increased planning. We have left unchanged from the previous planning. In this context, I had already referred to the enormous substance of our operating business, which we have continuously built up over the past few years. This is also reflected in our planning for continued significant growth in key figures, namely the managed non-life insurance premium volume and the assets under management.

The expanding asset under management, FERI has significant further potential as an asset manager, underpinning by highly professional and modern investment research. In the area of alternative assets, with over EUR 18 billion under management, FERI already maintains one of the largest expert teams in Germany. The strategic development of potential and consulting family clients, the targeted expansion of the corporate client business and the multi-asset approach for institutional clients should lead to growth in all competence fields. The planned significant increase in earnings is also supported by our digitalization strategy with a particular focus on AI applications, which are expected to drive ongoing efficiency gains and further improve client support.

Our development of AI service agent continues at full speed. At the final stage, we'll offer clients 24/7 [ visibility ] and complete processing of simple matters. An AI system, which makes the sometimes time-consuming preparation for client appointments significantly easier for our consultants has already reached the practical testing phase. For example, the AI can extract the relevant data for financial consulting from documents uploaded by clients and sought and stored in the right place in our systems to directly support the consultants. These new technologies are used throughout the MLP Group in a very targeted manner, but also always responsibly.

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me now to move on to the summary. Firstly, our strategically developed positioning is proving itself more than ever, especially in phases without a tailwind from the market and also when it is necessary to deal with one-off effects, which can occur from time to time. Secondly, artificial intelligence as part of our digital strategy is already an additional efficiency and growth factor today and will remain so well into the future. We'll also remain vigorously active in this field. Thirdly, our increased midterm planning for the end of 2028 underlines our sustainable growth path. In the coming years, we will benefit from the fact that we have now focused our real estate business and at the same time, made strategic investments.

Many thanks for your time and your interest. I'm now happy to take any questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question at the moment comes from Henry Wendisch, NuWays.

Thank you, Reinhard, for the presentation. A couple of questions from my side. Let's go with the obvious one I always ask is the net inflows and the performance fee metrics that we have seen in Q3 for our modeling. And then on the same topic, more or less regarding the guidance cut, you said was a mix of 3 things. One is a lower expectation of performance fees and of course, the real estate development that is not turning out the way it might have been looked like at the start of the year. And what is sort of a little bit of a surprise for me is the weaker old-age expectation now. Could you give us maybe a little bit of a split? So which of these 3 developments was the biggest one or to what extent?

And then directly a follow-up on that, why has sort of your old-age provision business outlook for Q4? It's very, very important for the fourth quarter. So why has your outlook a little bit changed there? I've seen you launched a new product, the portfolio [ Venter ]. So what is sort of the -- how can we think of this new outlook of yours in the old-age space? And then I think the very positive highlight here is the underlying profitability. It was a very strong gain. And also sales, if you include performance fees, you grew by 5% on a Q3 basis. So that looks very good. And I think the biggest improvement we've seen in profitability was in banking. Could you shed some more light on what has happened there? I've seen a positive effect in the so-called the [indiscernible]. Maybe that's something that's behind this, but I don't really understand yet what is the real driver here, the banking business underlying profitability. So even if you include the net interest income, which has declined, of course, as well, the profitability is still very -- on a very good level there in banking. So what's going on there?

Henry, thanks for your questions. And I start with the, let's say, easy one to answer the net inflows. The net inflows for the whole group for the -- let's say, the gross inflow for the whole year was EUR 4.2 billion, and the gross outflow for the whole year was also EUR 4.2 billion. And then we have overall performance of EUR 1.2 billion. Obviously, mixed in different areas. Your next question will be where does it come from? We had outflow of a bigger customer with a consulting mandate in -- with extremely low margin, but with some interesting assets under management. And therefore, the -- in the area of the company sector there was relatively weak for the whole year. This was more or less explanation a little bit to the net inflows.

The performance fees for the whole year was EUR 4.8 million. And I think this leads to your question then for the underlying business. And I just would like to compare for everyone here on the call, the performance fee for the first 9 months in '24 was EUR 26.8 million. That means we have EUR 22 million less performance fees in 9 months and only in [ license ], only EUR 5 million less profit finally that underlines that the rest of the business in general was quite okay, I think just to underline this.

The guidance cut, yes, performance fee real estate is clear. Old-age provision, old-age provision, we will have a very strong last quarter, but perhaps not as strong as we expected. That's clear. And what's the reason for that? We see, let's say, very, very good activities in the wealth management area. And we know that our consultants are obviously only have 24 hours a day. And at the moment, they invest more time in wealth management than in old-age provision. And therefore, we have a little bit mixed feelings about this. On one side, we are extremely happy what's going on in the wealth management area, especially, let's say, in the area of private -- of the private consultants. The inflows are extremely good there, but this has then the result that they have less time to consult their customers in old-age provision.

And that was the reason why we were a little more cautious there. But again, there will be a strong quarter, but perhaps less strong than we would have expected in the beginning. On the other side, we will see better results, I think, in the wealth management area in the last quarter in the private clients business. And therefore, as you also said, the underlying profitability was quite good. One reason for this profitability, of course, was the banking sector. There you also see as an outcome, what I just mentioned, the inflows in this area. We have, in the first 9 months, more than EUR 1 billion net inflow in the private customer sector in the banking with obviously the best margins in the wealth management in the whole group. And therefore, this supports the banking business and in the risk -- the [indiscernible] risk sector. We were relatively cautious concerning risks last year.

And therefore, the comparison last year to this year is that we are good provided in the risk sector already from last year onwards, and therefore, we had to do less this year. That was the reason why the risk figure in comparison to last year is quite good. And I hope, Henry, I have answered all your questions with that.

Yes. Just one follow-up on the banking. So does this imply that this elevated margin is going to stay there at these levels? Or do you see an effect coming back in Q4 maybe and also into 2026?

As always, it's depending a little bit on the development in the market. But for '25, now 13th of November, we don't expect declining margins in the banking sector [indiscernible].

The next question comes from Jochen Schmitt, Metzler.

I have 3 questions, please. Firstly, what's your new expectation for performance fees for the full year? Secondly, excluding any exit costs, do you expect a negative EBIT from property development in Q4? And thirdly, the EBIT range of your new guidance, may that implicitly be read as sort of headroom for the Financial Consulting segment for which Q4 is seasonally the strongest quarter for full year EBIT, but which may be somewhat volatile. These are my questions.

Mr. Schmitt, the performance fee in our original plan, we expected a low double-digit figure for performance fee. I just reported that we have until now EUR 4.8 million performance fee for the first 9 months. I would expect something like a lower EUR 1 million number to add on this EUR 4.8 million, but we will be definitely somewhere between EUR 5 million and EUR 8 million, I would say, just to give some numbers there.

On the property and the real estate sector, that's a good question. The question was if we expect a negative result in the last quarter in the real estate segment, I would altogether expect a negative figure there. Yes. And then the EBIT -- I think I lost the last question. Can you please repeat the last question again?

Yes, sure. I mean you have implicitly left a range of EUR 10 million in your new outlook for the full year, but this also refers to the fourth quarter. And what may bring you to the lower or to the upper end? Is it finally the performance of the Financial Consulting segment? That's my question.

Obviously -- thanks. Obviously, the area of performance fee left leaves some volatility for the last quarter. We are quite happy with all the other segments at the moment. And therefore, let's say, to reach the upper area, I think we should see -- we have to see no negative or let's say, some positive effects, not perhaps positive result, but at least some positive effects in the real estate segment and some perhaps a little tailwind on performance fees that would help us to come to the upper area of this range.

So at the moment, there seem to be no further questions. [Operator Instructions] So as there are no further questions at this point, I'd like to hand it back to you, Mr. Locher.

Okay. So if there are no further questions, I would like to thank you for taking part in our conference call. And of course, you can reach us if any further questions arrive later. I wish you a good afternoon. Thank you, and goodbye.

So welcome to today's roundtable with MLP. I'm pleased to have Reinhard Loose with me today. He is the CFO and will be presenting in a 30-minute presentation what is going on in the background of MLP and also talk about the guidance and the growth until 2028.

Organizationally, if you have questions, you are free to ask questions after the presentation. For that, we have Q&A function, which you can use to provide a question via text message, but you can also use the raise your hand button and then we will unmute you and you can ask the question directly to Mr. Loose, if you wish to do so. So I think then without further ado, we're able to go ahead and I hand over to Reinhard for your presentation.

Thank you, Henry. And before starting, perhaps the question again, is there anyone in the call who wants that I continue in English? Or is everyone able to understand German, perhaps a question before. Therefore, is there anyone who speaks -- needs English?

Yes, exactly. If there's anyone in English, just raise your hand. We don't want to exclude anyone. But other than that, I think we can continue in -- there's one that needs English. So we will continue in English.

Okay. Then thank you. Then I'll present around half an hour about some highlights and also some insights, what's going on at MLP at the moment. And then obviously, I'm more than happy to answer your questions.

Starting with the highlights. Just to inform you about MLP, we are a network of companies with the idea to support each other and to look for potential in our brokerage community. We are listed in the SDAX. And one of the strengths we see at least in MLP is that due to the business, we have a high share of recurring revenues. And 2 of the key figures who support us in these recurring revenues are the assets under management and the non-life insurance premium volume, the assets under management now are at around EUR 64 billion and the non-life insurance premium volume at the moment is at EUR 785 million.

If we now go to the agenda, we'll have a short look into MLP at a glance. Then I'll present you something about AI and what we are doing also with corporate clients. And finally, we'll have a short outlook until the year-end and to the year 2028.

Our business model, which is described on the next slide is the financial advisory network, which is based on family and corporate clients. This is something, especially the corporate clients, which we are developing. We came from just the focus on family clients. And over the last years, we are more and more extending our business to corporate clients. One, but not the only reason is that many of the family clients are also incorporated companies, and therefore, we got to corporate clients, but we also acquired additional companies to support us in this business. So this business means the 3 business lines, Wealth, Life & Health and Property & Casualty. And while doing so and looking for additional value inside the group, we also look for using the opportunities not only for digitization and artificial intelligence. Important is we are a consulting company and our target is to stay a consulting company without any doubt. But we are looking for support for our consultants for internal processes, but also for customers with the help of digitization and AI, and I'll bring some examples later.

If we go back to the last year, which we finished, the last full year, it's important for us because our business during the course of the year is relatively volatile. We have a very strong first quarter. We had a very strong last quarter, and we have 2 weaker quarters in between. Therefore, it always is interesting to have a look at the full year. That's the reason why we're here presenting once again the full year '24. And there you see that the share of the business now is 50% in the competence fields of Wealth, a little -- 29% in Life & Health and around 20% in Property & Casualty. In Wealth, it's Wealth Management, the interest income we have, but also what we do in the area of real estate brokerage or loan and mortgages. And there you see that during last year, we grew a lot in many of these areas, which, therefore, supported us a lot during last year.

In Life & Health and Property & Casualty, we were with a small positive number, more or less stable. And the other field is the real estate development, which we started some years ago and which we more or less stopped 2 years ago. And therefore, the big decrease there in real estate development. And then we have additional -- some additional other commissions and fees, which also support for a very, very small number to the whole cake there.

With all these competence fields, we managed on the next page that we exceeded the revenue of EUR 1 billion for the first time. And if you see backwards during the last year -- during the last years, we had a compound annual growth rate of 9% in revenues year-by-year. And obviously, our target is to continue in this direction also for the next year. And as I said, we are very happy that this revenue is supported by many recurring revenues. We have around 68% of recurring revenues. Our target is to have between 60% to 70% of recurring revenues. Recurring revenues, just to remember is what we do not have to need a new contract for the business, the contract is renewed automatically.

Obviously, it can happen that the contract is canceled. Therefore, obviously, it's not a safety. But due to the experience of many, many years in the business, we know that the majority of the business, a little bit depending from business field to business field, but the majority of these contracts continue. And therefore, I always make a little bit of the joke that I wake up on the 2nd of January, and I know that more or less 70% of our revenues are more or less safe for the year, obviously, more or less. But I think it helps us to have a first idea what's expecting us in the course of the year. Obviously, the rest, the 30% are important to reach our goals. And therefore, it's necessary also to concentrate on this business.

On the next page, there you see the development of the 2 numbers, which I already mentioned on the first page. Two key figures, which we have very focused in our business in our -- where we are focused on the asset under management growing more or less year-on-year. There was 1 year which was shrinking in '22, but overall since 2020, also 9% compound annual growth rate year-on-year. And on the rest -- on the right side, you see the non-life insurance premium volume growing even stronger with 14% compound annual growth rate over the last years and also supporting us there in the area of private customers, but also in the area and the growing area of the industrial broker segment, which we started some years ago in '21 and with the company, [ RVM ], which we acquired at that time. With these numbers, we were happy on the next page to reach EUR 95 million EBIT in '24. This definitely is one positive number. On the right side, we also -- we see our balance sheet as a stable -- very stable and also solid.

We are supervised by the banking authority by the BaFin. And therefore, it's important for us to have many of the key figures of the BaFin ask us for, the banking authority. And here, we just mentioned 2 key figures. We have a core capital ratio of 19%, a little more than 90% and a liquidity coverage ratio of more than 1,800, but 100% is needed. This underlines that we have a high liquidity in our balance sheet with our own money, but also with the money of the customers and with the high core capital ratio. We underline that the balance sheet overall is well funded. It's not only, as we see positive and attractive for the banking authorities, but hopefully also for our shareholders. And on the next page, we give you another key figure, which is also important for us, but we think also for our shareholders, which is the dividend and the dividend policy.

Our dividend policy now for many years is that we that we are distributing and also planning in the future to distribute between 50% to 70% of the net profits. On the upper left corner, you see the development of the dividend per share growing now for some years now with EUR 0.36 per share, which we distributed in the mid-'25. And on the right corner, you see that with our planning, we expect to reach an earnings per share between 90 cents to 95 cents in '28. And obviously, with the continuation of the dividend policy, you can calculate by your own what would this mean for the dividend.

We are covered by 4 companies. You see in the lower right corner, their ideas about our share. We have 3 buys and 1 outperform with a consensus of an average 10 -- more than EUR 10 per share. And therefore, we are hopefully increasing our share in the next future.

Then we now go into '25 on the next page, what happened in the first half of '25. We see that we are a little bit below last year. You see the EBIT number of EUR 42.7 million compared to EUR 48.7 million, 12% behind. There are some reasons for this. One major reason is that the performance fees we got last year are much longer -- sorry, much less during the first 6 months. Additionally, we had some additional spending, especially for IT. And both are the main reasons why we are behind last year in the first 6 months.

If you go to the revenues, which finally is the most important part to continue also growing the EBIT. And you see that the revenues continue to increase in the wealth area by 2%, I have to say, by only 2%. One reason why it's only 2% is again that the missing performance fees. We had -- just to also give you the numbers in the first 6 months, EUR 2 million altogether performance fees and carries while we had in the same period of '24, EUR 9.2 million. And we all know that the margin of these performance fees are extremely high compared to other revenue parts.

In the 2 other business fields, we continued to grow also with a little bit better numbers in the Life & Health sector by 5% and in the area of Property & Casualty, especially there in the health insurance area. Altogether, we increased the revenues by 6%.

If we then leave the area of the numbers and go a little bit into the area where we are investing right now, I would like to give you one slide for the AI area where we are investing right now. And of course, many, many other companies also are investing into AI, and we were also, let's say, testing there, but just to underline what gave us the big push there for our AI tools and where we finally installed AI. The reason was that in -- especially in some service areas, we had 1, 2 years ago, problems to hire enough people to bring the level of services we wanted to give to our customers. And this, by the way, is not only a problem for us at the moment, but for many, many other companies. And this perhaps can help us also for the future, and I will continue this in a second.

But what is our AI, let's say, strategy. And in the first step, we installed AI where we can just identify the need of the customers. For example, the customer was calling and the customer was -- is speaking to the AI that he needs support for example, in an area of a property insurance claim. And then the AI is routing -- the first step was routing the customer to the people who can handle this. And the second step, and we have this now in place in some areas, the AI is also able to handle some simple questions. That means, for example, if the customer is asking what do I need for additional information to handle this insurance claim. And then the AI gives you the answer.

And finally, the third step is that the AI is not only giving some hints, but the AI is able to handle the whole process. And this third step, which you see on the left side continues on the right side. That means -- and this is a valid example. The customer is calling concerning a claim. The AI is identifying the query. The AI is completing the process. That doesn't mean the AI is reading the mail, for example. The AI is reading and analyzing the photos of the damage, which the customer sends together with the mail. The AI is analyzing does this fit to the contract? Does the description and the photos fit to what we normally expect together with the damage?

And finally, the AI, if everything is settled in the right manner, the AI is able also to pay to the client. At the moment, we do a stop here because we finally do a check for -- that some of our employees also check finally if everything is done. But they only press the button and then this -- the whole process is managed in seconds or minutes and not in hours, days or even weeks like it took before. Is it perfect in all areas? Obviously, no. But what we see there where the process is now finally programmed and working that, first of all, we have no more waiting times, not in all areas, but in the area where it's finally programmed. We have no more waiting times and -- which is even more important, waiting times in, let's say, a normal business, you can manage this with the normal employers, but you have extremely different peaks in this business, let's stay with the property insurance claims.

There are days when we had thunderstorms and not, I don't know, 500 customers are calling, but perhaps 5,000. And obviously, you can't manage this fluctuation just with people. This sounds nice when I describe this and you now can believe it or not. But the interesting thing is, first of all, we have no waiting time there. And secondly, also important is that we spoke about it and some other market participants who have the same problems or than we had before are asking us, it's interesting, can we learn something from you and can we work with you together. And we now are doing this for the first external company. Another insurance company now is managing their claims handling with our process. And we are in talks with other companies who are also interested in this.

This obviously is very nice, but I think this underlines that the way we are going there, we believe, is the right one. And therefore, we are eager to continue this way and not only in this area, as I just described with claims handling, but also in other areas. This description is concerning this page.

Now I will bring you to other areas where we see additional business. This is the area of corporate clients. I have 2 pages here concerning the expansion into corporate clients. One important market we see there is the corporate benefit market. We are the biggest German broker for occupational pension schemes. We are, therefore, I think, well established in the market. But we also see that next to this corporate pension, there are other areas where it also can be interesting for us, but also for our customer and for additional customers to have a look at, and this is the overall field of corporate benefits. The companies are offering to their employees. Here, you see a lot of examples, public transport tickets or fitness offers, some noncash benefits and so on and so on.

The question is how do we manage or how does a company manage all these different offers, which they give to their employees. And here, we founded a small start-up. We call it :pxtra. We have the majority of the shares. And together with :pxtra, we are now continuing in the market with internal clients of MLP and the idea of our network of MLP, but also with external clients. And now after a relative short time, we already have more than 200 corporate clients, more than 10,000 users using this. And this, again, is a company which is very much based on digitalization using AI, but also a digital process, a digital platform. And we are very happy to continue working under this name and with the strength of other parts of the group. And we are just also started another area in the corporate client business.

We, as I said, for many years, established in the market of non-life insurance for private customers. We stepped into the market of corporate clients, especially industrial brokerage some years ago with the acquisition of [ RVM ]. But we found out that there is something in between, which is, let's say, too big for our MLP or in many cases, not at all, but in many cases, perhaps a little bit too complicated, too complex for the broad offer of MLP consultants, but a little bit too, let's say, too small and perhaps not less complex enough or the premium is not -- has not a perfect size for the area of the industrial brokerage. Therefore, we started a small company RVM SmartProtect, we call it, where we want to tap this or step into this, in this market of this medium-sized companies and want to offer them with the support of digital platform, also non-life insurance contracts.

Here, obviously, we started. Therefore, there are no numbers right now, but we are also quite positive that we can continue on the market here. That's perhaps 2 or 3 examples going a little bit deeper into some areas where we are concentrating or focusing at the moment. And with our, let's say, normal business and with the specialties I just mentioned, we would like to continue our path of growth, which we had during the last years. And therefore, I think, it's time now for the forecast and for the outlook, which you find then on the next pages.

We published some years ago, our targets for '25. Our target for '25 is to reach an EBIT between EUR 100 million and EUR 110 million. Last year, we came relatively close. And now we are fighting for reaching this target in '25 with the idea, if you go to the left side, of a more or less stable development in Wealth with a growth in Property & Casualty and growth in Life & Health. Why only stable? Wealth definitely will continue in the next years to be a growth driver for us. But due to the fact that we have a big increase last year in the interest income and as well in the performance fees, we see a decrease in interest income and performance fees. And therefore, it's only a stable revenue here in wealth.

If we then look a little bit more into the future into '28, just to remember, we are publishing targets for all 3 years. And therefore, for '28, our target is to reach an EBIT between EUR 140 million to EUR 150 million with revenues between EUR 1.3 billion and EUR 1.4 billion. And where do we see growth potential, more or less, and you all know that in the different fields we are in that depending on the economy, on the surrounding economy, there might be years when one area is going down, therefore, the other is going up. We found out that during the last year, we were able to manage it.

The mix nevertheless continue to grow. And this obviously should be and will be our target for the next year. But where do we see potential? We see potential in the corporate client business. I just explained the area of corporate benefits and the small and medium-sized companies, but also for the industrial business area. We see in the Life & Health area also potential, especially with demographic development, the need for advisory services and family clients. And again, the need for corporate benefits here also supporting us in Life & Health and definitely in the Wealth area, the continuation of the development of the last year.

There will be definitely other possibilities there, but there are some ups and downs also in the next years. But nevertheless, the overall trend, we believe, will continue and especially in the family client business where we had very nice inflows during the last years, but also with our high net worth individuals, we believe that we can continue the story. And therefore, we see for the year '28, our assets under management between EUR 75 billion to EUR 81 billion.

Okay. This is our plan for '28. And therefore, let me summarize this on the last page. We see, in our point of view, a stable business model with a high percentage of recurring revenues, a very solid balance sheet structure, supporting the whole business growth part with a history of many years of growth and also our ambitious planning for the future. We see some general trends which support this growth. And finally, we also hope to convince you with the continuation of an attractive dividend policy. And with this, I would like to finalize my introduction or my presentation, and thank you for listening.

Thank you, Reinhard for your presentation. As a reminder, now the Q&A is open. [Operator Instructions]

First question is coming in the audio line, Olaf Hein. Please go ahead. You now -- maybe to speak un-mute yourself, please. Go ahead.

So I don't know how many people are in the chat and eager to raise questions. I certainly have a few and so my first question is it's very wonderful that 70% of recurring revenues are in the back on January 1. But apparently, revenues are not profits, yes. So I'm kind of worried in the market probably as well as this 23% decline of EBIT for the first 6 months. You mentioned Mr. Loose that a major part is due to the performance fees and some other factors I don't really recall. And I'm not so certain. I mean you could probably tell us a little bit more why that should recover.

I mean I don't think that the overall market is much higher today or probably at the end of the year than it was at the end of June, at least the MSCI is somewhat flat, I think. And I don't know what you -- how you measure your success or you get the performance fees. And so you have to make up, I don't know, EUR 6 million, EUR 7 million, EUR 8 million for you haven't achieved in the first half, and I'm kind of wondering how you're going to manage that. That would be my first question. And then maybe other people can -- I can have another one later on.

Yes, of course, the guidance I think, is very -- definitely a valid question. As we totally understand just to I wouldn't say correct, but just to repeat the numbers, we definitely are down in the EBIT. We are 12% down in EBIT for the first 6 months, we are EBT, 23%. There was one we underlined this last year, we had an effect in the finance result, a onetime effect, a onetime positive effect in 2024. Therefore, definitely, the net profit is the most important figures, but I think it has the reason why we, let's say, follow the EBT because then this onetime effect in the financial results can be -- is not in the focus -- and therefore, again, it was a onetime effect in 2024 in the EBT and in the financial result. And the EBIT, nevertheless, your question, I think, concerning -- definitely is concerning EBIT. Our target is EBIT and therefore, it is down by 12% by EUR 6 million.

I think the question is valid, are we able -- will we be able to recover this. As I said, revenue is not profit, it's not EBIT, but for us, definitely important is revenue is the base for EBIT. And yes, we have some revenue aspects which have a higher margin, like the performance fee, and we have EBIT -- revenue effect which have a lower margin. The missing performance fees definitely is a task for our EBIT, but we also knew and we also planned that the EBIT would be much lower in '25 than in '24.

In '24, we had more than EUR 30 million of EBIT, to be precise, almost EUR 34 million, and we planned to have an EBIT in '25 lower to EUR 2 million digit number. We definitely have to reach this, and we haven't reached it right now. Therefore, number one is -- the message #1 is we do not have to reach last year's performance fees to reach our target. But until now, we haven't reached the plan for '24 -- number 2, for '25, sorry. Number 2 perhaps also, we had some higher especially IT costs in the first half year. And obviously, IT cost is something which you can spend or you don't have to spend and our plans for the second half is that they are a little lower. And therefore, this should, let's say, support our target. And therefore, I only can now answer in a different way, you are asking how will we be able to reach this target.

We all know that the fourth quarter is the strongest quarter, not only in Wealth Management, but especially in the area of Life & Health, especially in Life. And for us it is important that in the Life area in the last quarter, we manage to get enough revenue and then finally enough profit to reach this target. And therefore, it's like in many, many years, depending on the last quarter.

Obviously, as I said, still a challenge, but we still believe it's possible.

Mr. Hein, you can just go ahead and ask your second question.

Okay. Great to have this one-on-one. You are -- your clientele, correct me if I'm wrong, is income-wise above average. I think you have a lot of these academia people from -- you get them from the universities and then the idea is to follow their career path for the next, I don't know, 30 years and then they become more and more affluent, and then you can sell them more higher-margin products, if I understand that correctly. And it's a question that's not very precise, but I'm somewhat in that bracket, maybe in the lower wealth bracket. Whatever, after all, a little time, not very patient and if I be frank, I hate to talk to [ KAI ] or artificial intelligent robots, chatbots and so on. And in my group, I have dozens and dozens of complaints. If you talk to a machine or a robot, everybody is disgusted, to be quite honest, especially if you -- time is money here to speak.

I'm a little -- you probably know what I'm driving at, a little bit worried that you're losing your high net worth clientele by putting them in front of the [ KAI ] robot instead of some -- I don't know, real people, although they are in short supply, but maybe you should pay them a little bit better or so. I think it's -- I wonder -- maybe -- it is an open question, how is your experience with a certain physician or so is calling for something and then he has to go through the motion of talking to [ KAI ] and all kinds of these people. Are they happy? Are they -- what's your feedback here?

I think it's a very, very important question. And it's a question which was also in internal discussions for many years. As I said, especially in the area of private customers, but also in the industrial area. Our, let's say, our headline, our mission is we are a consulting company. And our consulting is based on people, full stop. But obviously, there are questions when either the consultants or the clients need some support and where in the past and also nowadays, they are calling a hotline, a helpline for more or less difficult question, perhaps the consultant which the customer has is not available at the moment, perhaps there is a special need whatsoever.

And there, we had the problem that like more or less the whole market with a number of customers, we are or we have in our portfolio. We saw that the quality was not what we intended to give. And we believe that the quality with AI, in general, is better than letting people wait on the telephone. And therefore, you see me answering a little cautious because I know that we have some customers who are not happy and we also give them possibilities. For example, if you talk to the AI, you can also say, "Oh, no, I don't want to talk to AI. Please call me back." And then obviously, it might last some hours or perhaps also on the next day until the call back is available.

But nevertheless, there is opportunity also to call to real people. But we find out that more and more people are also happy to talk to AI because they have the feeling they come to faster, I wouldn't say better, but at least faster results. Hopefully not better because I believe that our staff who's on the telephone line also can give the right answers.

Therefore, the question is waiting time reduction or AI. And we find out that more and more people are -- I wouldn't call it happy, but nevertheless, see it as an advantage to talk to AI and get a fast example -- sorry, a fast answer. The example is that, let's say, in more and more areas also next to financial services. You talk nowadays with AI, you interact with your iPhone with AI, you interact with ChatGPT, Perplexity or whatsoever. That means that people are more and more used to these tools. And therefore, yes, as I said before, it's not perfect, but I believe that is not the only future, but definitely part of the future.

But coming back to my first sentence, it's only meant as a support for our consultants. And for the interaction because we, with our business philosophy, believe that what you just said that our customers prefer when it's possible to have a consultant. But there are, as I said, moments and times when it's not possible.

Long answer. And I know where you, I know exactly what you -- but yes. And as I said before, the example which I brought is a real example. It's interesting to see that other market -- that to be quite honest, makes us proud that other market participants now asked us what and how are we doing this? And can we use the same system? Or can we use your services that you MLP that you don't cover, support us with the problems we have. I think this...

Yes, that's -- are they named for that -- do you get some royalties or license fees or something?

Yes, we do.

Okay, fair. That's -- yes, that's a valid point. Maybe other entities are even, I must say, in worse shape than you are. So that's a slight weakness. Yes. Okay. Fair enough.

Great. Yes, I think adding to this, I think the insurance industry is one of the least digitized, maybe it's my personal experience. Great. Thanks for your questions.

No I have more -- sure, I mean it's 6:00 p.m. and I wonder, I am sorry if someone...

No, no, it's fine.

Mr. Loose, if you're kind enough to spend another 10 minutes.

And I'll answer a little bit faster, okay?

My question will be more precise, I think. So the entire business unit of wealth management, I'm kind of a wealth manager myself, even a very small one. And of course, I own significant -- for me, stake of MLP shares, or I wouldn't be here. So I know the industry kind of well. And your FERI Trust and I don't know whether some other entities are reaching 65 -- EUR 64 billion. That's a huge number. But in the comparison to the German leading asset manager and not even -- not to think about the worldwide manager, you are, I don't know, worldwide, you're not, I think, you're not even on the horizon. I think that I just looked it up the number of 50 is 10x bigger than you are. And in Germany, you may be at number 20, I don't know.

So it's -- and I kind of wonder the following. The fee structure of asset managers is under pressure, I kind of feel. They -- people are -- especially younger generation is not willing to pay management fees to a certain extent. They all have this [ Robinhood ] stuff and everything is for free. The margins are coming down for portfolio management for custodians and so on and so on. And your -- and then there's a fierce competition for assets -- to increase assets overall. There's a lot of M&A going on and takeover and so on and so on. And although looks -- you look pretty solid right now with this EUR 64 billion. It's not a position that is let's say, indefensible or invincible rather, yes. So I wonder what do you have in the future for -- in mind for to position FERI Trust and your additional asset management capabilities in order to compete in the years ahead because it's a fierce battle and it's not going to be any easier in the future, I think.

Definitely, and I think again, very valid and serious question. Our answer at the moment is that we are focusing one time on niches, like we do the so-called Flex family with the Flex funds that we focus on certain customer groups like in our MLP banking on this midsized MLP customers, high net worth individuals and family offices.

Yes, there is a fierce battle. We believe that, let's say, consulting has an added value also in the future. And with a mixture of consulting on one side and interest on the other side, we strive for continuous growth there, but we know the market isn't easy.

Maybe any acquisition or like you are a rich company. If you want you can pick up some additional asset as you did in the insurance business, is there -- to find some, I don't know, asset manager that might like to be part of the MLP Group or so is that ever realistic or acquisition kind of growth that's the question.

Acquisition in general, we are I think, it has to fit from the culture and the people has to fit and the, let's say, the overall strategy has to fit. And we find it not so easy in the asset management area to have the right fit there. Obviously, as well some in the market right now who are on this acquisition track. At the moment, obviously, we are -- we have a look at the market, but we're a little hesitating there.

Okay. That's from my side. Thanks a lot.

Thanks, Mr. Hein for your questions. Now we will continue with some other questions. Next in the queue is Mr. [ Klaus Hone. ] Please go ahead. You are now able to speak, please unmute yourself.

I'd be more interested in the IT spending that you've done. Can you give us an indication because it was key in the bad performance, EBIT performance in the second quarter, and everybody is kind of wondering how we should -- what we should pencil in for the third and the fourth quarter. So can you give us an indication of how high IT spending was in the second quarter and how to model it forward for the third and fourth quarter.

Yes, Mr. [ Hone ], now I have to look in my head. We had spending in the area of AI, which were around EUR 1 million higher than we originally planned in the second quarter, and we had spending of around also EUR 1 million in the area of security, cybersecurity, EUR 1 million higher than we expected. We originally planned...

This is all second quarter, right?

That was all -- both was second quarter, and that means this isn't something which you can, let's say, take out for the next quarters. Just to give you a rough number there. Is it okay?

Yes, thank you.

Yes. Was that everything? Or anything?

Yes, that's right for now.

Great. Thanks as well. Next up, Mark Josefson is on the audio line, and then I think we can continue with some questions. Mark, please go ahead.

Many thanks, and thank you for arranging this, Henry. Great roundtable. I want to combine Reinhard, your answer to both of the last 2 questions, actually because I mean I accept the importance of Q4 in terms of seasonality. You have always flagged that. But I see a risk that given also a very strong Q3 2024 again, I think, due to high performance fees in Wealth Management in Q4 last year.

I see a risk that EBIT in Q3 2025 could also be below last year's level, meaning that 9 months even further behind the target. And that would mean that we really have to go something in Q4, to get to this EUR 100 million level. Is that a realistic scenario? Or is it the case? I mean, you just outlined EUR 2 million of potential savings in Q3 with the cost savings on IT. But is it -- are there other things that we should be aware of that will perhaps mitigate Q3 compared to last year in terms of the profit performance?

Mark, now -- this is a question concerning Q3, which I'm a little hesitating to answer to detail. But obviously, your general idea is a valid one. We had a very strong performance fee last year in Q3. And I think during the whole year, we said that our performance fees in '25 will be lower than in the year before. And this definitely is valid for Q3. I hope we underlined that the Q3 numbers, especially the performance Q3 numbers will not be reached in a normal scenario.

Right. Okay.

And therefore, let's say, the challenge for the whole year is there and the only possibility we have and we already -- we always said is that we grow in other areas stronger than -- or that we continue to grow in the other areas to level or to give counterweight to the strong performance fees on '24.

Yes, that would be great because I think that helps the equity story, but let's see that. Thank you for answering the question as you could, given the timing of where we are at the moment.

Thanks. Great. Thank you, Mark. I think that sums up your questions, right?

Correct.

Right. Perfect. And we have 2 in the chat there, actually in German, but I will try to instantly translate to English. First one is for Mr. [ Malik Adam ], please explain your strategy in the corporate client business? Do you also expect the buildup of corporate clients consultants that are experienced? And is there the competency of corporate client consultants already there?

Yes, thank you for the question. We -- first of all, we have some -- also some experts amongst the MLP consultants, but especially in the -- with the acquisition of [ RVM ]. In the non-life insurance segment, we also acquired specialists for -- we acquired corporate consultants there. Definitely, we are looking for more. And that means if you have some, please let me know.

That definitely is something we are looking for. We -- our target in this corporate client strategy, in the corporate client area is that we have, first of all, want to grow in the non-life insurance segment. We would like to continue to grow in the corporate insurance, the occupational pension area and would like to combine these both areas. Meaning we already are the biggest broker, the biggest German broker, I have to say, for occupational pension, for corporate pension schemes. And that means we have the contact to the customers there.

With the acquisition of [ RVM ], we also have a contact with the customers in the non-life insurance segment and would like to combine this, knowing that in bigger companies that there are different people to talk to. But nevertheless, there are opportunities to give an interesting offer combining both worlds. So this is, for us, definitely the biggest area to grow. No, I just see your answer. We are not intending to have our banking business expanded into the corporate client area.

This might -- in exceptional cases might be the case. But I think there are so many banks in Germany who do good corporate banking business. That's not our target. Our target is the insurance broker segment, number one. And then the wealth manage area with FERI is number two.

Great. And then 1 more question also from Mr. [ Adam ]. It's regarding tech platforms and [indiscernible] or broker pools in English. In the insurance area, for example, JDC, they are experiencing a strong growth. How do you react as MLP on this development? Do you do -- own software development, white label solutions or takeovers of other brokers in the insurance field? Yes, you gave a little preview already.

Yes, this is a question which you can answer in 1 hour, I'll try to reduce it a little bit. Definitely, we are investing a lot into IT now for many, many years. We are also working together also in the IT segment with other companies. And -- but also, as I just mentioned with the example of DOMCURA, we also start now offering our business to other market participants. That means there is an interesting network in the whole market. And we like to work with many of them together.

JDC, obviously, we know them for many, many years. Their model is a little bit different to other model, to our model. But I think we all can learn in one or the other way from each other but we -- our idea is more to grow, let's say, without smaller acquisitions but obviously, from time to time, a midsize -- from our perspective, the midsized acquisition would be easier concerning and then the integration of this company.

Right. I think that answers that. And we have no more questions in the chat or on the audio line. So I think then we can wrap everything up, unless there's one more question coming in, but I don't see that to be the case. Well, in that case, just for me to say a big thank you to everyone who joined us. A big thank you to Reinhard for having stopped his vacation for this hour and given us this presentation and I think I can hand over to you for some closing remarks, and wish the rest of us a happy rest of the day and week.

Henry, thank you for organizing this. Thank you for managing us. And I hope we can answer all the questions, give some new insights and definitely, we're all together looking how the rest of the year will continue and looking forward to this. Thank you. And as you said, now offering or disclosing my little secret, now I continue my vacations and big regards to everyone else.

Great. Thank you. Bye-bye, everybody.

Thank you. Bye-bye.