Vita 34 Stock

So, hi again to this small round, as usual in our earnings calls, and welcome to the full year 2025 earnings call of FamiCord. As usual, we prepared a small presentation for you, just a couple of slides to get into the topic, and then I'll hand over to Jakub, and he will lead you through the presentation. And afterwards, we have time for Q&A, of course.

So, Jakub, please go ahead.

Welcome, everyone. Maybe some others will join because we got some e-mails from investors interested, but who knows whether they would be able to join today's call. So, we published our results as planned. The year was pretty good. So, we delivered more or less what we expected. Revenue grew solidly by over 7%, earnings even more by 12.3%. We had, as usual, a certain impact at net level, related to goodwill impairment. What is worth noticing is that we see -- we noticed a strong shift of our clients towards subscription services. So much more of them are selecting yearly payment over those who decided to prepay for 5, 10 or 20 or 18 years depending on the option.

What we also announced in our guidelines that we noticed in the second half of the fourth quarter a sudden change in consumer behavior and then we became pretty cautious as that already continues in Q1 of 2026. One important information, we decided not to continue supporting our CAR-T project, understood that we cannot afford investing more. So we stay as a minority shareholder, but having less than 20% of the equity, and we are just a passive shareholder, and we are not consolidating the result of the company, which is called FamiCordTx or FamiCord Therapeutics, and that company is burning cash because it's a typical R&D company.

We are living in pretty difficult environment that everybody knows, yes, which is rather getting more complex and complicated. There are less and less children, right. Economy is really fragile. So, that overall uncertainty may have a strong impact on our potential clients' behavior. And it's also related with AI because I believe that certain industries might be under pressure in terms of maintaining jobs of people, particularly, let's say, younger cohorts or simply employees of corporations, which are at age of, let's say, 30 to 35, and that is also part of our target group. So, we believe that impact of AI could be also responsible for the change of shift of interest in our services.

From the cost perspective, we believe we are trying, at least, doing our best to maintain the cost in order, and we reduced, let's say, unnecessary spendings. And also, we decided to postpone unnecessary CapEx until having more clarity how the situation develops. That's it, I think, from the summary.

Maybe, Thomas, you can add something from your end.

Can you go one slide back just to see if we said something about financial stability and full focus. Yes, we are taking care, of course, about the development that's also that we will see maybe this year. So, we are close monitoring our cash position. As you saw on the first page in the summary, equity ratio went down to 3.3%, which is pretty low, which is not a major situation for us, but needs to be understood that is mainly driven by impairment and also by extending our asset balance. So therefore, the equity ratio came down, but it is closely monitored. And yes, maybe from the financial side, it's also something we might add to be aware of.

Yes, I did not comment on particular markets, right, because it's not that all the markets are doing the same or we're doing the same. So, we see still continued growth in GCC despite the situation caused by a war between Israel, the U.S. and Iran, right. So, we see that our operations, they are doing pretty well and that they are doing also pretty well in Q1, right, and April. And certain selected countries in Eastern Europe are also pretty resistant to potential issues we see in other markets. So, it's not that everywhere we see a sudden drop of interest, but it's in majority of countries, but not in all of the countries.

One more comment. Regarding this year, we decided to be really cautious as the situation is really unclear, economic environment is influenced by, let's say, political decisions and distortions and the outcome is completely unclear which direction it will go. We know that there will be no more children. There is no magic solution to be implemented in the short term. At least nobody invented that. Maybe Chinese will do something because they have even bigger troubles. So, maybe something new will come from Asia, who knows. And taking all of that into consideration, we decided to issue that kind of forecast or guidelines showing revenues in the range of EUR 80 million to EUR 90 million for 2026 and group EBITDA in the range of EUR 9 million to EUR 11 million.

So, I think that's it from my side. If you have any questions, happy to answer.

Great, Jakub. Thank you. So, I'd say, as we have such a small round here, just please feel free to open your mic any time and ask a question.

Tim, yes, as I saw. Happy to take you first.

So, I was a bit -- I mean, it's understandable, I think the outlook, right? But I was a bit disappointed or it comes at a timing where at least from the last reports you had to Q3 with placenta banking, positive sort of momentum in Eastern Europe, at least in some countries, yes, the overall impression is so much more muted, obviously, which then I'm pretty certain also led to those new impairments because the muted outlook obviously then results in another business outlook.

So, my question there would be, is this what you already see? I mean you mentioned this that you are seeing parts of this in Q1, right? And that's led to this stance. But maybe you could just sort of outline where is it coming from? Is it more the overall contracts, pricing pressure in what regions? So, we just understand a bit more where your cautious, sort of, outlook is coming from? Or is it more precaution than actually what you're seeing?

And Thomas, probably the follow-up for you, monitoring your equity ratio is an interesting formulation. I mean is this -- are you at levels where you have to take action? I mean your covenants for the banks, et cetera, that's all fine, right? Your EBITDA is good. So, this is more -- from my point of view, but please tell me if I'm wrong, it's more a cosmetic topic than an actual financial distress situation.

So, maybe I will start and then Thomas will answer. So first of all, we see something which is pretty unusual that consumer sentiment dropped in most of the countries. In the past, it was like some countries were performing very well, sometimes some of them not so well, some of them were in average, blah, blah, blah. So that was balancing, more balanced. At the moment, it's different. So, we see drop of sentiment or interest in majority of the geographies. And this is why we started to be really cautious because that is probably the first time in our history. It has never happened before.

So, as I said, I mean, we are doing well in GCC. We are doing pretty well in Turkey. We are doing pretty well in Hungary. Romania, Poland is also not that bad. But some of these countries, although they are doing not that bad, they are doing below our expectations. So, that means that even the countries which we consider healthy are sometimes below what we would have expected. Whether there is one reason for that is unclear because we don't see what you ask maybe. We don't see that much pressure for price, but the fact that more people are choosing subscription is an indicator that consumption power is smaller or people don't like to spend money. So, we don't see that suddenly we should lower our prices by 20%, but by the selection of giving packages is also an indicator that price might be or might be an issue.

We don't see competitors being suddenly hyperactive or offering special prices or being somehow desperate. No, we don't see that. So, I think it's overall market perspective rather than one action or one cause or one reason. We also mentioned that we -- in our letter - that we should also adjust our marketing strategies due to AI and the way AI is now used and how the information is searched. So, all the, let's say, digital communication was optimized for, say, traditional search engines. Now we are simply optimizing that to be better visible by engines supported by LLMs, by models because they are providing information in a different way and also, they are reading information in a different way. And that will take us a couple of quarters to adjust and adapt to be better visible or to have higher or bigger efficiency of marketing campaigns. So, that's more or less the situation from the market perspective.

Obviously, there is one factor which we believe is rather positive after political changes in Hungary, a lot of money should flow from European Union to Hungary. So, we believe that that country would benefit. So indirectly also some of our potential clients will benefit out of that. But it's a very good market, but it's not that big market overall.

Whether -- as I mentioned, I mean, we don't see very negative impact of the conflict in Middle East at our operations there. We are still growing. We are actually at record sales there. The question is on whether we can continue growth. That we don't know because that also depends on the political situation. We are not only operating in Emirates, we have also partners in Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, so in the entire region. Yes. And otherwise, I think that Thomas may comment on the banking side.

Yes. Thank you, Tim, for the question. Why did I mention the equity ratio to say in the first step? It's not an issue of us, of course, because often, we have one financial covenant, which is net debt to EBITDA. So, it's not the equity ratio. But for somebody who is not within our business, it sounds strange to see an equity ratio just of 3.3%. But if you do understand our business as you do, it's mostly coming from our contract liabilities, so enhanced balance sheet plus the situation that we had some impairments last year, especially on FamiCord AG, so our German entity and our Portuguese subsidiary, Stemlab. And of course, we had some M&A activities last year. So, our debt position increased because it was financed with cash and debt last year.

So overall, that's why our equity ratio came down. It's not worrying us, but we are taking care, of course, especially since last year, our operating cash flow changed since we have more subscription, which is good to have in the long run, it's a sustainable development. But nevertheless, we have less cash that we received. So, this is something we are really taking care and taking into account what Jakub said and what we are seeing in the outlook, you just need to be careful. That's why we highlight this. And this, let's say, our job to be careful on this, whatever would come in the market or in the macroeconomic development.

Okay. But just to clarify, the equity ratio itself is nothing which would require you to do any kind of capital measure or I just wanted to clarify that.

Tim, of course, it's better to have a higher ratio.

Sure.

That's clear. That's clear.

Great. Thanks, Tim. Any other questions today? This does not seem to be the case.

Okay. But if nobody has a question, of course, I have another question. Can you give an update on the placenta banking? I remember that Portugal was the next country you were looking. And I remember that you had some positive -- surprisingly positive signs from Germany also what this topic was. So...

Yes. I mean -- so Portugal, we introduced Placenta Banking in December. At the moment, what we see is a practical execution because hospitals in Portugal were not well prepared for that. Obviously, it's not our responsibility in terms of Portuguese regulations. It's different in Germany. So, we are gradually now training hospitals in Portugal to be familiar with the topic. So, sometimes we have cases that somebody signed the agreement and then hospital did not collect placenta, which is not complex, as you know, because we are just taking entire placenta. We are not doing anything with that. Cord blood collection is much more complex.

But that was done and that we believe that we will improve in Portugal. We don't expect to reach that ratio of like 35%, 40%. We have seen some countries or even more than 50% of people taking that offer, but at least minimum, 20% is the goal. Germany, yes, we got the license after more than 2 years of discussions with the authorities. So, we have collection license and production license. And what we started is signing the agreements with hospitals across Germany. It is required. And that's a very regional process. So, there is no German or federal standard on the topic. We have to do it at the [ level of Länders ] in Germany. At the moment, as far as I remember, we had a range of 35 or 40 agreements signed, in that range out of more or less 600, which is the total number of hospitals.

So, in that case, we believe that after we'll have at least 100 agreements signed, we will launch the product in the territory of Germany. We believe that will be in Q3 this year. It's more complex in Germany because due to regulations, not only we have to have it in the form of written amendment to our existing agreements with hospitals, but also, we have to formally train the hospital staff collecting placenta like we do regularly for cord blood and cord tissue.

What is planned for this year is Hungary. We -- in the past, we were rejected to get the license because the authorities in Hungary told us there is no law in Hungary, which will allow to issue such a license. We believe that, that was a wrong interpretation of the law. And we reapplied to get the license. I think we placed a request again in end of February. And we expect rather positive answer. Obviously, the government is now changing. So, we will see also maybe some changes in the Ministry of Health and all the agencies. So, that will be probably a little bit longer process than usually. But we really believe that we may introduce also this product in Hungary this year.

Maybe a quick reminder. I think you once mentioned that your expectations or your -- what you're seeing currently is that it doesn't really cannibalize the navel blood.

Cord blood. Yes. I mean there are two things. I mean one thing that we simply have more money per client. Obviously, we cannot sell with the same margin, it's an add-on product. So, the margin percentage-wise is smaller, but it's simply a higher margin per client. But obviously, there is another factor which is important. Placenta seems to be well accepted by stakeholders. So, as I said, if you would ask person on the street, what is placenta? everybody -- almost everybody knows what is cord blood, not necessarily. So, from that perspective, we see that. And this is why the takeout is so high as for the new product. On average, it's over 35%. I think it's even more. I mean, even weighted should be over 40%.

And another country, I forgot to mention, we also introduced that in the U.K. So, we will not process it in the U.K. We'll use our Portuguese laboratory for that because we have already the license in U.K. We don't have the license in placenta yet. So, we also introduced that in placenta banking in the U.K.

So, any further questions at this point? I think now that's not the case anymore.

Maybe one from my side.

Of course.

Thank you very much for hosting the call today. So, maybe you could also share some light on the ongoing efforts on Cryo-Save. Where do we stand there in terms of customers which you have won from the existing customer base? And how do you see the future in signing up more of those customers?

Pretty positive. I think last year, we solved all the formal issues related with court proceedings we are involved in and which were blocking us from active communication with these families. So, there is an entire process of communication going on. We started the year much better than we expected. So, we see a rather positive response of these families.

I believe that these families will contribute positively to our, not only revenue but also profit this year, which would be first time since we saved all these samples. So there is an action plan prepared. We are regularly -- we selected certain cohorts of clients per country, per year of storage and so on and so. We have a dedicated call center for that multilanguage call center, which is operating from Warsaw with some help of our daughter companies across Europe. So, I'm rather positive. I'm rather positive.

The issue we have -- main issue we have is the addresses and contact numbers we have are unfortunately, in 30% or 35%, they are simply old and not correct anymore. So, it's an issue how to get to these families because we can use those official channels to identify the person, but that is pretty costly exercise. So, we are rather focused on mass now sending communication to as many as possible, which makes sense and then trying to obviously upsell because we are not only offering storage, but we can -- we are offering extra services, including also check of the physical check of the sample, right, whether it is expanding, cells are expanding, cells are growing, and we can also test -- reconfirm the genetic origin of the sample and this kind of stuff. So -- so I'm rather positive. And that should grow in perspective of next years.

And how many clients have you already signed? And what's the current target?

We have over 50,000 signed. But you should remember that in the very beginning of a couple of years until we had the so-called backup agreement binding, backup agreement was between PBKM in Poland and the bankrupted Cryo-Save, we were accepting prepayments, yes, which were paid before to Cryo-Save. Now we are not accepting them anymore because backup agreement is over. So, this is why I'm pretty positive in terms of growing revenue from these clients.

To remind -- everybody -- we are talking about roughly 50,000 families out of more or less 225,000 families who are direct clients of Cryo-Save. On top of that, there are also B2B relationships. So, these are partners of Cryo-Save who store the samples with Cryo-Save. And we have, at the moment, I think, four agreements signed with former partners of Cryo-Save and these companies are now our clients, right. But they are paying B2B wholesale price, not individual price. So, it's different in terms of profitability.

And what's the current target in terms of customers from Cryo-Save? How much of the 225,000 will you convert?

No, we are not disclosing that kind of information.

And regarding the recurring revenue, where are you standing there? And where will you stand at the end of the year, roughly?

I mean last year, I think that we disclosed that information. Maybe Thomas, you can comment on that, yes.

Yes. We -- last year, we had EUR 22.7 million recurring revenues at the end of the year, not.

Yes, that is the range. But this is -- these are recurring paying annually, yes. And on top of that, we have also roughly EUR 7.5 million extra cash from prepayments done by existing clients or clients who prolong a finished contract. So altogether, roughly EUR 30 million from cash, yes, from existing client base.

And where do you think will you stand at the end of the year?

Subscription base should grow. It's natural process, yes, because churn is low, as you know. The question is only the prepayment component. And here, we don't know. Really, we don't know because we see that less people are choosing prepayments overall, right. So, even for those who continue expired contracts, we don't know which fraction of them will really go for prepayment. So, the component Thomas mentioned, EUR 22.5 million, let's say, that will grow.

How much do you think?

I mean it's natural. I mean, assuming you can calculate that information is public, let's say, cash-wise, it should be in the range of between EUR 0.5 million and EUR 1 million. That depends because depends on the ratio of how many clients will select subscription model. And also, Cryo-Save has an impact because Cryo-Save, we also offer both annual payments and prepayments, and we push for prepayments here in case of the -- why? Because mostly these clients are older. They banked 20 years ago, 15 years ago. So, people are at age of 50 today. So, they are probably stronger from a financial point of view because when they were banking at age of 30, 35, likely their income was lower than they have at age of 45, 50 or something, yes. So, prepayment is better accepted across, let's say, ex-Cryo-Save clients than for our regular clients.

So, did I understand it correctly that you expect a growth of EUR 1 million in recurring revenues? Or is it EUR 1.5 million?

No, no, no, between EUR 0.5 million and EUR 1 million.

Yes. Great. Thanks. Any further questions? So, that doesn't seem to be the case for today. So, then I think it's time to close the call. We've reached the end of today's earnings call. Thank you all for participating in this small round. For those of you who were not able to follow the call from minute 1, we will download this conversation and make it available on our website in the course of the day. And for the time being and until our next call in the mid of the year, thank you all for joining, and have a great weekend.

Thank you.

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to the 9 months 2025 Earnings Call of FamiCord. As usual, this place takes -- this call takes place in a small group meeting here on Zoom. So thank you for joining our session today again. We prepared a short presentation for you as an update on the Q3 financials and the business highlights during the quarter. Following this, there will be a Q&A session.

Please be reminded that as usual, this call will be recorded, and the recording will be made available publicly after this call.

And now I'm handing you over to Jakub Baran, CEO of FamiCord, who will lead you through today's call. Jakub, please go ahead.

Good morning. Welcome to our quarterly call, and I believe our results were pretty good and we can shortly jump to details.

I would not maybe read all the numbers but just focus on financial highlights. So first of all, our revenue grew visibly. Our EBITDA -- reported EBITDA improved unproportionally better. Net profit is positive again. What changed against last year and that continues for this entire year is more clients choosing subscription model over prepayment model. That means that from a cash flow perspective, we have worse result you might have expected but that's on the short-term perspective. In long-term perspective, these clients will obviously pay us more in annual payments.

We did a few M&As. So that means our equity ratio improved in H1 but liquidity declined. We also started a few quarters ago showing invoiced amount, which is probably important for investors willing to better understand how IFRS rules are, let's say, may be applicable to CAC revenues. And what is probably strategically one of the key aspects is growth of annual recurring payments by almost 7% to 17.3%. So overall, 3 quarters were solid or very solid. And that is, I think, 10th quarter in a row, we are improving our results. So I'm pretty happy with performance of the company.

Certain things changed, certain things are same. We are living in the world of a small number of newborns, and that will not change. It's all over Europe. It's the same in developed countries in Asia, and I believe that, that would continue at least for a while. I already mentioned increased share of recurring revenues. What we see in terms of geography is that Eastern European countries are doing pretty well or very well. Southern Europe depends, let's say, we have certain issues. And in Central Europe, we have a mix of countries developing well, and we continue suffering in Germany.

As mentioned also before, we increased our stakes in Slovakian and Czech companies to 95%, and I believe that was the only spot we are not controlling in Central -- or Central Eastern Europe. And we believe these countries have potential of growth, particularly Czech Republic. Slovakia is due to the size of the country, which may be then not that promising. However, Slovakia many years ago used to be one of the most developed markets in terms of corporate banking, thanks to a very strong local player who is now not so much active.

Two important things from business perspective. First of all, we see certain improvement -- visible improvement in CDMO activity. So in Q3, we signed 3 contracts worth more than EUR 1 million in total, and there are more prospects, which we believe will materialize in next year. Revenue from those contracts, obviously will come mostly with certain delays. It's natural for B2B business, we have to prepare certain things first before delivering products to the clients.

Interestingly, one of these clients is a German company, which will start clinical trial in Germany. And I hope first application a patient will be this week, tomorrow, over the weekend. And if not, maybe that would come on Monday or Tuesday. But the samples are already in line to get Fraunhofer. We are cooperating with Fraunhofer.

In terms of something which is very, very old historical issue, Cryo-Save, our former competitor, which bankrupted 6 years ago, we had several issues related to that, although we are not fully involved in problems of Cryo-Save. We simply took over the storage of 300,000 samples belonging to 300,000 families. And we settled court cases we had in Poland, and that is an important message because we would be able to open communication with these families proposing them to sign storage agreement with us.

What would be the financial income? We don't know. However, we believe strategically that may have certain positive -- only positive impact at our revenues in coming years. We decided to maintain our guidelines in terms of revenue and EBITDA over -- after 3 quarters, you see that there is a high likelihood we will be in the -- rather in the top part of our guidelines in terms -- particularly in terms of EBITDA. But as we know from the past, fourth quarter usually brings more costs and is less -- a little bit less predictable than the previous quarters. So we stayed rather conservative. If only we would see that the results are even better than guidelines, obviously, we will notify the market. But at the moment, it's definitely premature.

And I think that, that's -- that's everything in a nutshell. If you have any questions, obviously, we are happy to answer.

Maybe Ingo, I mean, for participants, Thomas Pfaadt and Ingo knows him, team knows him. Martin, I don't know. Thomas is our CFO. So maybe we should...

Yes. We have a small group here, so it's a rather cozy happening. So I would like to ask you to unmute yourself and just your questions.

I'll take Jakub, Tim here. Just a few questions from my side. Can you remind us -- maybe this is for Thomas actually, what the impact of the consolidation of the new entities was in Q3 in terms of EBITDA roughly. So -- that would be interesting. And then in terms of M&A activities, do you see anything else sort of on the horizon? Any other yes, targets or minorities you might want to take over? And then lastly, what's the status on the CAR-T wind down? Where are you with that program? I mean you're obviously reporting continued operations. So it seems you still have discontinued operations. So maybe a quick update would be helpful.

So for Czech and Slovakia, I'm not fully aware of the detailed number but Jakub, you might help me for Q3, what we expect for Czech and Slovakia. So it's consolidated since June this year. So we have the first impact in Q3 for Czech and Slovakia.

I believe that for entire 2026, the impact will be in the range of EUR 400,000 to EUR 500,000 -- sorry, EUR 200,000 to EUR 250,000.

For 205 or 2026?

For 2025. Okay.

So -- but that's not a full year -- that's the sort of the half -- second half.

Half year, yes, because we...

Full year effect would be like EUR 500,000, EUR 500,000.

Yes. That range, yes. That depends, obviously, because we are now budgeting next year, and there are several question marks whether we should invest more and or rather stay conservative to understand better the market. So I don't know. I mean, normally, with normal approach, that should bring us in that range of EBITDA. If we decide to invest, obviously, there will be a delay, because first you invest, then you see the result.

What is interesting in Czech Republic, in particular, are very high prices there because competition is very limited and it seems that the statistical client is a bit better, you mean better probably from mid upper class rather than mid-class, which is our statistical clients across Europe, including Germany. So in Czech Republic, that product is offered to, let's say, the really top part of the society. This is our understanding. Yes, in Slovakia, it's like for most of the other countries. So yes, we will see. But yes, that is the range, yes, anyway.

M&As, there are some targets but not so many, honestly speaking. And for that, we would need capital increase because we cannot afford doing that from our credit lines. Remember that we have some payments remaining for the transactions in Slovakia and Czech Republic. This year, we have expected closing of nOvum transaction, signing was a couple of weeks ago, right? So I don't think we can afford doing more. I would say there are maybe 3, 4, not more left in Europe, which are considerable. Yes but that's another story. I would say that this is not a topic for the moment, not the top.

And maybe very important from an IR side to stress, there is no transaction in preparation. So this is a very important...

Yes. That we can say. That we can say. Obviously, we are in touch because that industry is super niche. We know each other very well with most of the owners or CEOs or Boards. But at the moment, we don't expect anything coming soon.

Maybe just -- maybe have a quick follow-up on that. What is the sort of the magnitude? Like do you have an idea of sort of EBITDA of these targets, the size or the overall transaction...

Very different. We have one company where, for example, the founder is already 80 years old. He handed over the company to the son and son is in renewable energy sector, and he's not interested, yes. And these clients are paying mostly annually. So it's a very interesting top because it's very easy to measure that there is no risk. The size is in the range of EUR 0.5 million, EUR 1 million for transaction. So it's -- you may name it even risk-free but that would mean we have to enter a new country. And I'm not sure we like to do that because that's an effort as well, right? So that's one transaction.

Another is pretty big one is in the range of EUR 10 million. Yes. But again, we don't have money. So why consider at the moment, we stay in touch. Obviously, we see certain synergies but it does not mean we would agree price, and it's simply premature. So there are also targets -- and I mentioned 3, 4, yes. There are some targets I would like to buy but they are not on sale. And they are highly profitable.

Those are usually the best target.

I mean, obviously, everything goes on sale but the price would be unproportionally high. So -- and as several -- I mean we mentioned several times, the industry is continuing consolidation. However, there are not so many targets, which are really interesting. So we have probably reached the moment the market is saturated in terms of new transactions, yes, maybe as I said, 3, 4, not more, I don't expect. And for CAR-T, we expect in November or December, we will drop below 20% of shareholding. General assembly already happened of FamiCord Therapeutics.

And at the moment, the company Board is collecting interest from minority shareholders and from some new investors, mostly individual people. Interestingly, these are people from pharmaceutical companies, usually managers willing to invest. Competitors, they are competing as companies, each other but these are private investments, right? So we expect that to be finalized in November and December. Then we will continue as -- you may name it financial investor a little bit with 20% stake and as potential subcontractor, yes, in case the company continue research projects and they will need products, we will be providing them from our, let's say, CDMO from -- by the way, our CDMO activity, we branded it Bramble Bio. So we are promoting Bramble Bio and so Bramble Bio will be supplier for FamiCord Therapeutics.

No further questions for the moment?

I would have one question. You mentioned that you settled the dispute with Cryo-Save. And could you give us some light on the current process where you are standing there in terms of invoicing or like that you basically invoice some of the samples from Switzerland? And what's the time line around this?

I mean we -- what I can say that we are communicating now with these families actively. We started in second week of October. So it's pretty new. And we started from families who or which already left the updated contact data at our website, right? So that is limited to roughly 20,000 families. To remind, we store samples belonging to 300,000 families. 50,000 of them already signed with us, it's 50,000. 20,000 is registered. And the rest is a mix of clients of different portfolios of clients, yes, because some of these families actually are our clients because originally, the companies we acquired over years used to cooperate with Cryo-Save in the past.

So by protecting Cryo-Save inventory, we also protected part of our own inventory but still, we estimate that we should reach at least 100,000 more families, right? So that communication is under preparation. The difference is that we -- starting November, end of November, we are not respecting prepayments done by those families to Cryo-Save. Before, we were somehow obliged to respect money they paid to Cryo-Save, yes, for storage of the samples. It's not the case anymore, right? So we will simply see what's the interest, real commercial interest of these families to continue the storage.

But overall, we can only be let's say, on the surplus here because until now, we had limited revenues, right? Because obviously, as mentioned, we signed 50,000 contracts. And these families, we sold some extra services like checking the samples, expansion of sales, they were simply very interested in understanding the quality and so on and so. But we are not publicly sharing information about expected revenues from that group of clients because it's simply a bit unpredictable. I would say that Q1, Q2, we will have more information. And then I believe that we can start sharing if we would only be able to say, yes, this is the number we can publicly confirm.

But what I can also say from the other hand, it is not a subject of ad hoc. So that is a certain positive impact but not that big, yes. You would be able to say what is the financial impact on the current results and future results, definitely positive. And over time, that is definitely super positive because the prepayment periods will be over. And from our perspective, from 40% to 70% of these families will continue storage. And remember, Cryo-Save started in 2001 -- or 2000 and the highest number of clients they had in years 2009, 2012. So in 3, 4 years, there will be a bulk of families, which will have to decide whether to continue storage or not, and we believe 40% to 70% of them will continue under one condition. We have to reach them. And after so many years, it's not that easy because, obviously, people are moving, they are changing e-mail addresses, telephone numbers. And they were -- these contracts are not fully up to date.

Just one more question from my side, Jakub, for better understanding. So you currently have 50,000 clients already and you target to reach 100,000 clients or...

I mean, in total, I believe 100,000 clients is possible, yes.

So you want to double the current amount of...

Yes. Yes. I think that we can say. However, this is not like -- that's a guess. That's not a forecast because we don't know why. And it's pretty psychological topic, yes, because those families, we think that those families who are the most interested already signed. So we don't know what would be the tail, let's say, of interest from the other families. And obviously, we know thousands of people are completely not aware that something happened to Cryo-Save because if you -- they did service in 2003, imagine, yes, you signed something so many years ago, you don't care, yes. You think everything is fine. And then you can discover new information. So this is why it's a bit unpredictable.

And one last question from my side then really. If you invoice them on an annual basis, what average revenue do you expect?

I mean we are charging roughly between EUR 90 to EUR 100 per year. And that's 3 of VAT, yes, because the families are signing with our Swiss entity.

May I just have a quick follow-up on [ Neil's ] question. But if I understand correctly, from those 50,000 potential in brackets, yes, sort of your estimate, 20,000 already left their data on -- or is that additional to the 20,000.

No, no, no, it's -- 50,000 families already signed.

But I think you mentioned something of 20,000...

20,000 is on top of this 50,000, which left updated data but did not sign.

Exactly, yes. And that -- and those would be within the 50,000 additional but maybe a bit more easy because they've already in contract et cetera.

Yes, yes. Exactly.

Okay. Okay. Understood. And then just maybe one final question from me. Maybe a quick update on the Placenta business.

Yes. Good news from Germany. We got the license, which we struggled to obtain for more than 2 years, I think. So finally, we have it. And the next topic is as a process of amending the agreements with clinics. So we will not start offering that before we reach -- we guess -- we estimate 100 clinics amended contracts because we cannot just contract and then say the client, we can't deliver. So I hope that we will be able to go to the market with this product in Germany in Q3 next year.

But what would be the reaction of the market is difficult to say. Overall experience is positive from all the countries, what we mentioned several times. Actually, we -- in none of the countries we started that we saw negative reaction, only positive. So there is only a question mark how many clients will decide on this kind of product. And the next country would be probably Portugal because that depends on the authorities a little bit.

But that's great news. I mean I think the order was the other way around before. I think you always mentioned you think Portugal would be before Germany.

Yes, yes. We -- I mean...

Overall, this is good news, right?

We were negatively surprised first by German authorities. Now we are positively surprised by German authorities. So they did not raise more questions. They are precautious, as said, because that is the first license of that type in Germany. So I think they were really, really precautious asking several questions. And at a certain moment, they stopped, and they just told us you have the license.

Good news.

But may I add, Tim, even if you -- as Jakub said, when we start in Q3 next year, there will be kind of ramp-up phase. So you won't see that much revenue in the beginning, of course.

Yes, it's natural. I mean, first of all, this limitation by the number of hospitals, maybe I don't know whether we communicated that but there are roughly 650 hospitals with deliveries in Germany at this moment in comparison to 750, which was 10 years ago roughly. So they are consolidating. And out of the 650 hospitals, we have roughly 90% coverage in terms of collection of cord blood. But for cord tissue, I think that we have roughly 70% of these hospitals covered with agreements. So we expect similar situation for Placenta. So there will be a fast growth in the very beginning with hospitals, which are, let's say, easier to amend such a thing.

And then that will gradually go up, but not that way, right? So that will be like a jump and then up, up, up, up. like we continue with cord tissue, yes. We like to have the same coverage like for cord blood. But this is a long process because you have different authorities in lens and they have different requirements in certain lens, the authority has to approve the agreement with the hospital. So that is a very, very slow process. But overall, it's a positive message because we see really how positively is reaction of the clients, but also midwives. I think this is something which is very, very important because when you collect cord blood, some midwives are saying you should do it in the very last moment, enabling the fetal or the baby to get as much blood as possible.

And this is so-called delayed clamping. And that is done to even to set an extreme. It went to set an extreme how much blood or how long the baby could be connected with mother. So some midwives may consider cord blood banking as a negative thing from fetal perspective but that has nothing to do with placenta. And there is much more [indiscernible] supporting placental cells are very, very interesting and rich in many substances or active substances, which could be used for treatment. And it is also more natural. Tim, 10 years ago, if I would ask you on the street, what is cord blood, you probably would have no clue. If I would ask you what is placenta, I would guess 99.9% of people are aware what is placenta. It's more natural, right? So we really believe that, that should bring us simply more margin overall, right?

Are there further questions for the moment? I assume not.

So then we've reached the end of today's call. Thank you very much again for participating. Should any further questions occur, then please just drop us a mail or call us. We're happy to assist you. And then talk to you soon on our next call. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So hello, everyone, and warm welcome again to the Poland Conference ON AIR to those who attended some further calls. And now I'm delighted to welcome FamiCord AG and the CEO, Jakub Baran. So he will be the last presentation but not the least. So now we are happy to see, yes, what FamiCord is doing. And yes, you will get us through some insights and the presentation, Jakub.

So now the stage is yours.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Welcome, everybody, this time from our Warsaw office. I share my time between Leipzig and Warsaw. And I will tell you, walk you through a presentation of our company named FamiCord, which we believe is just something more than stem cell bank.

So first of all, why we are here at Poland ON AIR? A few years ago, Polish company called Polski Bank Komórek Macierzystych did a cross-border merger with German listed company called Vita 34 AG. And Vita at the time was listed at Deutsche Börse, and we are listed at the Warsaw Stock Exchange. So at the time, Vita simply purchased PBKM, paying in shares and partially in cash. In fact, that transaction was a reversal takeover as PBKM was much larger company at the time and was by far the largest stem cell bank in Europe.

After that merger, which is pretty rare, and we think it's rather even unique operations between mid-cap companies, between Polish and German stock exchanges, PBKM was delisted from Warsaw Stock Exchange, and now we are listed only at Deutsche Börse. And this year, we decided to change the name of Vita 34 AG into FamiCord AG as FamiCord is much better established name or brand name in Europe, operating in several countries via more than 30 companies.

So what we are actually doing? So we are a stem cell bank, but we believe we are just more than stem cell bank. We are providing the access to the therapy by collecting of various cells and tissues after the baby is delivered. And we are testing those cells, processing them and freezing for future use, either for the child which we -- from whom we collected the cells or for the family members. And we simply believe it's a matter of time that kind of activity will become an integrated part of modern medicine, and it fits very well to recently very popular longevity topic.

How our service looks like? So we are trying to address pregnant women or pregnant couples to -- parents to be via providing information, necessary information through social media, medical doctors, hospitals, pregnancy schools, baby fairs, printed materials, all possible channels, which allow to pass the message about possibility of banking stem cells.

And then these families are signing the agreement with one of our companies across Europe. And after the baby is delivered, so baby is already safe, we collect cord blood, placenta, placental blood, cord tissue and amnion, for example. We can collect various types of cells after the child is born. Then these collected materials are transported to our laboratories across Europe, then they are processed, as I mentioned before, tested and stored in vapors of liquid nitrogen, could be kept forever. And then we release them in case there is a treatment required.

So we are #1 in Europe at the moment, #3 in the world. And what it means we are #1 in Europe that we control roughly 55% of European market, and I will go to some details later on on this topic. We store more than 1 million samples of biological materials. We operate a network of 13 processing laboratories. You can see small red dots. So the newest one is opened in last year, 1.5 years in Dubai. And we have also some laboratories which are only for storage, one in Switzerland, one in Poland.

We are also operating so-called CDMO centers. We cooperate simply with commercial clients for producing for their needs cells and advanced medicinal products for their clinical trials, so that centers are located in Portugal and Poland. And usually, in the country we operate, we are #1. It's rather exceptional that we are not #1. And at the moment, we are #1 in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, and we are #2 in the U.K., #2 in Emirates and #3 in Romania. And we have also a small office in Hong Kong, and the samples from Hong Kong are transported to our laboratory in London. That office in Hong Kong is like remaining of the acquisitions we did in the U.K., and that company called Smart Cells had an office in Hong Kong.

In fact, our position in Europe is even stronger because 55% means we count entire Europe, and we are not everywhere. So in the countries we are present, we usually control on average 67% of the market. In Germany, we have monopoly. In Poland, we have more than 90%, yes, of market share. In several countries, more than 70%.

So what it means? It means that if we like to grow, the market should grow or the prices should go or the market should go when prices should go up or we simply introduce new products or we develop geographically. So we are at the moment present in roughly 75% of Europe in terms of access to newborns. Some markets are not possible to enter like France where these kind of companies cannot operate under French law. It's restricted to publicly or state-controlled entities.

However, in most of the countries, as you saw on the map, we are present either directly with our daughter companies or via network of partners, particularly in former Yugoslavia. Countries like Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Northern Macedonia, we are present with partners. These partners are also operating in some other markets.

In terms of what we see as a priority, so obviously, Germany and Poland due to the sizes of the market and the number of newborns and potential we identified as the most interesting. In some markets, as I mentioned, we are not #1, and we like to be #1 as well. And particularly the focus is on the U.K. and Emirates at the moment where we believe it's a matter of time, we will become #1 from current #2 position.

If you look at Europe, it's not really united Europe. So that's a map showing so-called penetration of stem cell banking service. And you can see countries where more than 5% of families are banking. It's Portugal, it's Cyprus, it's Romania, it's Hungary. You have mid-penetration countries, right, like, for example, Greece or Slovakia. You have countries with penetration between 1% to 3% like Poland, Italy, Spain, Switzerland. And you have countries with low penetration, Germany, Czech Republic, Austria, and countries with almost no penetration. As I mentioned, France, there are practically no collections.

So it means that you have to apply different strategies to each market because they are simply different. Either regulatory framework is different, so you may have obviously European directives, which are binding, but at the same time, in health care, you may have local laws. And it is common that there are plenty of local laws. Particularly in Germany, the law is very or extremely strict or it is very complex in Spain when you have autonomic regions of Spain where you have to apply separate licensing processes.

There are also different behaviors of consumers. Some of them value family, more in the south of Europe. Some of them are more precautious in taking decisions, which is more north. In some countries, societies are spending money for private health care, while in the others like in the Nordic countries, spending privately money for health care is not so common. So you expect paying high taxes that the government with national insurance provides you everything, while in south of Europe or Eastern Central Europe, society tends to pay for private health care services.

So all these aspects create this diversity, which is good and bad. It's good because it builds barriers to enter because you need to understand all these specifics to get to Europe. So we don't have U.S. players. They failed. They tried to enter. They failed. We don't have Chinese players. But obviously, it costs more to maintain different marketing strategies, different tools because you have to adjust to the local requirements.

The market is in major phase, I would name it. 15 years ago, we had roughly 150 players in that field in Europe. And as you can see here, over those 15 years, it got consolidated. So 5 years ago, we had 100 players or less than 100 players. Today, I estimate it at 60, maybe 55. And I predict that sooner or later, we'll have maybe 40, maybe even less, maybe even 30 players across Europe. And nobody besides us is really pan-European. We have a few companies operating in more than 5 countries, very few, and some players operating in 2, 3 countries.

We did roughly 30 M&As. So we developed via M&As. And that was both at original Vita 34 site and PBKM. Vita did roughly 5 M&As, PBKM did 25 M&As, so all together 30 M&A. So we are partially responsible for that consolidation process. Some other players, they simply ceased the activity, they stopped the activity, some of them bankrupted, like in any other industry, you may face this kind of situation. And as this is very niche market, it is normal that you cannot operate because there is not enough money in that market for such a number of players.

The industry was hit by obviously kind of black swans. Our former European competitor called Cryo-Save bankrupted very badly in 2019 for various reasons. But that scandal hit the industry because if you store stem cells of your child, you expect they are kept in the bank forever, it's safe, nothing may happen. And unfortunately, it happened, and that hit more than 300,000 families. And we moved all these samples to Warsaw from several locations. So we protected those samples, but the trust was gone. So that was really very, very difficult time, and there are still some remainings, particularly in heads of authorities, doctors, they remember someone bankrupted, yes. So it's a question mark whether that industry is trusted.

We had COVID-19, which we hit -- which hit us, in fact, in 2020, where we had limitations in access to the hospital. Hospitals, we had issues with visiting parents, obviously, schools of pregnancy or schools of virtual [ close ] and so on and so. And also the way we had to operate was different, and a lot of our effort moved from off-line activity into online activity. It's good and bad because it's now more costly to be digital that -- to be digital 10 years ago because everybody is there. So there is a competition for the attention of the families.

And then we had obviously Russian war in Ukraine, which had indirect impact on consumer mood particularly in Germany, uncertainty, market fragility and this kind of negative factors. But they are all gone. So there are some remainings. Everybody is used to war in Ukraine. It simply continues. It will stop, it's a matter of time. But when, nobody knows, but there is a war. And we don't think it has a major impact in most of the European countries. The only exception is probably Germany.

What we cannot change and will not change is lowering number of newborns. So we are facing that issue across developed countries everywhere. So we are like in Japanese 20, 25 years ago.

Is that important? Yes and no. Because maybe you remember, I mentioned what is the penetration ratio, so 2% is European average. So 98% of people are not banking stem cells. So is it important, the number of children going down? Yes, it is. But I believe the potential of growth is enormous even with that lowering trend. Particularly, if someone has one child or couple have one child, they tend to spend more for this child than if they would have 2 or 3.

So what is also crucial from our perspective is number of therapies. I mean more therapies with stem cells means more confirmation, it makes sense to keep stem cells for future. And there are several opportunities and several threats at the same time, obviously some strengths and weaknesses. But what we can see that there is a growing number of clinical trials with use of stem cells worldwide. Europe is behind, is China and U.S. and developed economies in Asia being frontrunners. Europe is waiting or looking at the others.

There are -- I will give some examples from the press and from media and from some authorities to be more precise on what's going on in terms of development of therapies. We see certain interest of certain group of doctors, but from the other perspective, obviously, there are some doctors saying, "Okay, it was a nice topic 20 years ago, but it's not anymore. There are alternative technologies," and so on and so. I think it's like in all medicine. Everything takes time to develop.

So it's -- in our case, everybody believed that 20, 25 years ago, stem cells will cure everything. It's not the case. They are simply good for a certain treatment of certain diseases; for some, not. Sometimes your own cells cannot be used. Because you have genetic disorder or genetically based disorder, you cannot use your own cells to treat yourself, yes, but maybe you can paradoxical use the cells of the family member which is not sick.

There are obviously threats, regulatory issues. Europe is becoming more and more bureaucratic, which is a problem for everyone, not only for us. But there are also some other things which may positively bring us up. I mean we have hundreds of thousands of families being our clients, right? Child, mother, father, sometimes grandparents, all of them usually pretty well educated. It's middle class, usually our client is middle class, so it's a perfect client. So maybe we can sell to them more products.

I mentioned about some news from stem cell treatment area. And for example, cord blood, so collected as a main actual product for us, got a formal approval in Q2 in Australia as a tool or a medicine to treat cerebral palsy, and it took 15 years to get that approval. It's not yet in Europe. But what it means, I mean cerebral palsy cannot be cured fully, but stem cells in cord blood are helping enough to convince the authorities in developed country. Yes, you should have them and use them in case you have child with cerebral palsy. And cerebral palsy is pretty common disease.

Common means roughly 0.5% of children might develop it, and it's pretty common already. So a number of clinical trials is going on. In various areas with various stem cells, safety is very, very high. In terms of efficacy, we will see.

There are also some other news which are important. Stem cells, first of all, could be used even after 15, 10, 20, 25 years of storage. And that was confirmed at patients. So there were question marks several years ago. Will these cells be viable after so many years? Yes, there are.

And there is also another thing which is very important, expansion technology. Standard cord blood portion is not sufficient for any adult. It's usually for the teenager or child of body weight between 30 or 40 kilograms. So we have cord bloods which are applicable or useful for adults, and some of them are for small children. But there are recently big steps because FDA approved expansion technology. So number of cells is not a problem anymore, so you can simply expand cells and have them enough for any kind of recipient. And recently, it's really last week, and then there is a positive opinion. We are now verifying whether this is a formal decision or just a positive opinion at the moment of European agency for medicine for similar technology from an alternative provider in Europe available.

And for other cells from cord tissue, placenta or amnion, there is no problem with multiplication. We have all this technology, so there is no problem with the limit of number of cells.

I mentioned a little bit about countries of focus, Germany and Poland, but there are also others. Yes, I mean, Spain. Spain is very special for one thing or for many things actually. But Spain used to be the largest market in Europe in the past before the crisis in 2008, financial crisis, let's say. And now it's been developing. And very recently, it's 1.5 years ago, the highest court of Spain confirmed that every citizen has the right to bank their own cord blood or cord blood of his or her child. That was not allowed. I mean that was allowed in private hospitals and in some regions of Spain. Now it's allowed in all Spain. So it means a relatively large country of European Union is now, let's say, fully accessible for our services, which was not the case 1.5 years ago.

And another country is Turkey. Obviously, inflation is a paining thing there, but it's a large country, 85 million almost, yes, 83 million of citizens with a lot of newborns and with frequent use of cord blood because of sickle cell anemia and beta thalassemia, which are diseases very specific for that region. So it's a very well-accepted treatment tool by the doctors.

Gulf region, I think it's not coincidence, we opened the lab there. I mean the rich country or wealthy countries of the region are getting more and more open for various services. We've been there for 20 years, yes, but we opened it up because we see also growing interest in banking as well in cellular therapies. And the government in UAE is very open for this kind of initiatives, let's say, and that regards as well to Bahrain, to Qatar, Kuwait. Saudi Arabia is a very special case, yes. So we are very passive there. I think we need a local partner to get in.

And Portugal used to be one of the largest markets in Europe in terms of penetration. I mean before the mentioned crisis, financial crisis 15 years ago, it was -- penetration in Portugal was 14%. It dropped, and it's now more or less stable, and we believe Portugal still as a base for growth particularly that we have a lot of historical clients there. It's not a matter of only selling product to the new clients but also a matter of selling new products to existing clients.

So we have a few interesting revenue streams. I mean clients are choosing 2 options. Either they pay for collections of stem cell testing processing and they prepay for storage. So you can see that in 2024, roughly 59% choose that option. Payment upfront means that they prepay for a certain period of time for storage for 5, 10, 18, 25 years depending on the country, while the others are paying first fee for collection testing and freezing of stem cells, and then they pay annual subscription.

And you can see that we had last year EUR 21 million from annual subscriptions already. So it's growing number of clients, and churn is below 1%. So they usually pay even more, they pay more and more because we have the right to increase the storage price by inflation. And there are no movements to the other bank practically because there is always a risk related with transporting of frozen sample. Something may happen physically, yes. So -- and there is -- the gain is too small, say, I don't know, EUR 20 per year or something. To risk the sample makes no sense. So people are simply continuing payment.

On top of that, we can see this is EUR 21 million I mentioned before, existing clients are bringing us extra cash. It could be that they, for example, prepay for next period of time because they have some money, and they -- instead of paying yearly, they like to prepay or we had thousands of contracts of clients who prepaid in the past, and these contracts are finishing now.

So last year, we simply needed more cash because we have in some M&A discussions we finalized this year, so we decided to squeeze a little bit our existing client base, and simply, we generated more cash because we needed that. There is a -- so you can see a growing amount of purely recurrent revenue paid annually. And on top of that, there is an expected extra cash we generate from existing clients in the form of prepayment.

And here, on the right side, you can see the number of finished contracts in prepayment. That gap here comes from the fact that, yes, 20 years ago, Vita changed the policy, and instead of offering 20 years of storage in the price, it switched to 25 years of storage in the price. So that means that we have a drop, but then the number is growing up again. So there are good perspectives. And storage fee, as you can imagine, we have very limited cost of keeping of these samples. So we spent all -- practically all the costs. So it's only a matter of liquid nitrogen, obviously, space, electricity is not a cost here, some validations and obviously licensing, and so there are much more indirect costs than direct costs. But overall, we are using the stream from subscription or recurrent revenue to get more clients, more and more.

So it's a paradox. If we would stop acquisition of new clients, our results will improve immediately, but we prefer to have them more and more and to have these amounts even bigger and bigger.

I mentioned placenta banking. We can also collect placenta. That is practically a bit new service because we started in '21 only in Switzerland, then we rolled it out to Gulf region, then Poland, Romania, Italy, and the next countries are in a queue. And placenta is more natural. If you ask from the person from the street, what is placenta, everybody knows. If you ask cord blood, almost nobody knows, yes.

Why we did not start from placenta? Because there is no standard therapy with stem cells from placenta, but there is enough science and enough medical data to offer that kind of service. So there are other experimental applications which were not there 10 years ago. We got first license for placenta in 2014 in Poland or '15, and we resigned from that because we did not have enough proof at the moment we have them, yes. And we see great interest of our clients. Between 25% to 30% of clients are choosing also placenta banking.

And it's also better understood by midwives. So they are much more in favor of storing placenta than cord blood sometimes because some midwives say that as much cord blood as possible should flow to the newborn, which is actually not the case, but that kind of thinking sometimes exists. So with placenta, there is no issue. And what it gives us obviously is also more money because we have margin.

I mean we have some obvious building blocks. We like to have better sales and operational excellence. We are growing number of subscriptions, so there is the snowball effect. Obviously, that it was mentioned that we like to have simply higher value of each client in long term, so increase our CLTV and obviously reduce the cost of acquisition or CAC. We have more and more clients prolonging finished contracts so it is additional revenue or profit. And also, we have some first experience in CDMO, so B2B relationships, so also providing cells or medicinal product from sales for B2B partners.

In such a case, we are organizing donors, yes, volunteers. They are donating various types of tissue, isolate cells, we manipulate them, and then we sell the product to B2B partners. And all of this obviously is to increase the value of the company for our shareholders.

And our ambition is to become the bank of obvious choice. So even if we are #1 today, I would not say we are bank of obvious choice, first choice, yes. In some countries like Poland, it is like that. In Germany, it is like that. We have monopoly there, right? But in some countries, there are some competitors, as mentioned. And I would not say that for all the families, we are the first choice and obvious choice.

So in terms of the size, so we just confirmed our outlook for this year. We expect between EUR 85 million to EUR 95 million revenue and EBITDA between EUR 8.7 million to EUR 10.3 million. We are rather optimistic for year 2025, and our just published results brought attention of investors. As you can see, our share price was under certain pressure, which was interesting because we've been improving our results last 8 quarters in a row, but there was no reaction of share price. Actually, it went down, and suddenly, since a few weeks, we saw a growing interest with much bigger trade of shares, 3x average or 5x average per day. So someone is simply buying shares. And it exceeded current target price in one of the research, which is available for our company. Our target price was at EUR 6.50, and we are over EUR 7 at the moment.

I don't probably need to go much through our financial results last year. So we are mostly focused on EBITDA. So last year, we improved our EBITDA a lot, yes, by almost 60%. Revenue grew 7%. You can see signs of controlled cost in G&A, which grew 0.7%. Marketing and sales is proportional. So we simply did pretty well.

But what is, I think, more interesting, I will show you maybe that is H1 results. So we grew revenues 15%. EBITDA grew 36% from continued activity. We turned to profit. And here, it's a tricky thing because we are operating under long-term contracts.

So IFRS 18 is applicable. So our results are not that easy to understand from financial point of view, honestly, because we have long-term obligations. So our balance sheet is unproportionately big for the size of the company. But I believe that investors simply appreciated what happened, and our cash position lowered because we finalized M&As in Slovakia and Czech Republic, buying up to 95% of shares in 2 entities there.

So thank you very much for your attention. I hope that it was interesting.

Thank you so much for your presentation, Jakub. You were so passionate talking about FamiCord.

So ladies and gentlemen we are now open for your questions. [Operator Instructions] But now we have virtual hand from Tim. So Tim, you should be able to speak now.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Yes.

Great, great, great. So Jakub, I didn't get to ask you this question last week. Can you -- sorry, it's more technicality, but can you comment on the extraordinary expenses you had in Q2 from the M&A transaction? Because the SG&A was a bit -- quite a bit higher in Q2. That would be helpful. And if I calculate it correctly, the EBITDA relief of CAR-T not being in the continued operations would be about EUR 0.5 million per quarter. Is that roughly...

Slightly more, slightly more, yes, but similar, yes. So two things. I mean obviously, I mean that M&A was not an easy M&A because we had even court cases in Czech Republic and Slovakia with our majority shareholder at the time. So it took us really like 1.5 a year to agree. So this is why I mentioned we started generating cash already last year to be ready because I was rather positive. But that means if the discussions are already at the court and then you have tough discussions among the lawyers that we spent unproportionally a big amount of money for lawyers. So let's say, a few hundred thousand euro, I can say that range went to lawyers. So it is in our G&A. And most of the costs were -- occurred in actual -- no, I don't know whether most, but at least, I think, 35%, 40% was spent this year.

And another thing, we also -- we spent a lot for head count not only because we extended our Board in Germany, we hired a new Board member responsible for sales, but also in our other positions. So we have a lot of open recruitments. And that was extraordinary, and that goes to G&A. So that's, I think, the answer to the question, right?

Yes. Can you remind me what the rollout for the placenta product is? I remember that you said in the presentation, you now have approval in Germany or you are close to approval.

No, no...

Okay, not quite.

No. I mean we would love to have the approval in Germany. I mean here, I can tell you that we are facing a typical situation for, I may name it, German bureaucracy. We've been in the process over 18 years in Germany. So originally, we should have started a year ago with placenta banking. Now we hope for first quarter next year. And I think the reason is pretty typical. That will be the first type of this license in Germany, so authorities are extremely precautious. So they are asking really unnecessary questions in our opinion, obviously, right?

So it takes much more than expected. But I think with the recent communication we have with actual -- this is LDS. So it's Saxonian land authorities. There is a chance we will address all the issues raised by them, and then we will get it this year to start in Q1 next year. That was the -- but in Portugal, for example, in Portugal, the issue was that the authorities interpreted the law in the way that we have to authorize all the hospitals, we. That was very challenging. So recently, the authorities admitted that it's not required, and we can start immediately. So in Portugal, we will launch the product in Q4 this year, so placenta bank, yes.

Thank you so much, Tim. So with the view in the queue, it seems there are no further questions from there, but we received a question in our Q&A box.

So the question is, how is it possible that originally a Polish company become European #1 in health care-related sector? I think that's super rare.

Yes. I believe that there are not so many examples of Polish companies being successful in Europe overall, but particularly in health care and health care services, I don't know any, honestly speaking, but maybe there are some niche companies. And I think the key was that we simply, at very early stage, decided to go for external financing, yes. We founded the company, 5 founders. That's also not so common, many, yes, 5. We invested at the time, that was 2002 in Poland, over EUR 1 million in start-up, yes. So that was also a lot of money.

But already 3 years after -- 3.5 years after establishment of the company, it was going so well. We had a business angel. And then we had 3 rounds of private financing in 2009, so after 7 years, we -- enterprise investors. So Polish, let's say, that was a venture fund of Polish private equity entered. So we simply shared power, yes, with our investors because they wanted to have a stake obviously. And enterprise investors took over the majority at the time mostly via capital increase. And then later, we went public in Poland. Again, new investors came, yes. So enterprise investors exited, and then several other investors went in, too.

So that was absolutely crucial because when we look at our competitors, they simply -- they control the company 100% from very beginning. They were either bought by us or they developed by themselves, but that without that capital, we could not have developed. That was, I think, one important topic.

Second, from very beginning, so in 2002, we started promoting subscription. That was not known at the time. This -- the subscription services at the time were energy and cable TV and maybe mobile phones, yes. That's it. And we started with subscription, and most of our competitors, they were preferring prepayments because there is a nice cash flow. But when we modeled everything, how much money we may earn, that was obvious that subscription is much better than prepayment. Actually, a combination is good. Cash flow is also good, right, current cash flow. So I think the fact that we started very early with subscription and having investors and they also provided liquidity helped us a lot.

And we went international. So I did first M&A when the company -- international when the company had EUR 1.2 million revenue. We bought a company in Latvia at the time and a year later in Hungary, so very, very early. Obviously, it's a small industry, yes. We are really in a very niche industry. So betting on one country is not enough. yes. So that was also our ambition simply, to be international. So reasons, for rational reasons, I think.

Right. Thank you so much. Then we have another question. Do you see any difference between German and Polish investors?

Yes and no. It depends, let's say. I believe that Polish investors are more for risk, so level of risk acceptance is higher. However, German investors are probably a little bit better educated because they saw more, simply. And that difference is today probably much smaller than it was 15 years ago, yes. The world is really equalizing the knowledge and so on and so.

So I think that these are 2 factors, which are pretty typical like for nationality behavior, yes. So it's not really different. And I can see plenty of investors today are really like Americans. So they are much more for risk, much more open for expecting much more but -- expecting bigger gains but obviously taking more risk. So there are differences. It used to be bigger to these days, they are still there, but they are minor.

All right. Thank you so much. It seems by now, we have no further questions. So having said this, another one pops up. What was the most surprising for you after merger Vita 34 and PBKM?

There was certain, how to say, clash of cultures. I believe before merger that there will be a perfect fit, German planning with all the analysis and then Polish courage to do things. And actually, that was like water and fire. So to convince people in Poland that now we have to analyze a little bit more and take into consideration maybe some more factors because it's really worth to understand better before doing was very difficult to convince my managers. And from the other side, in Germany, how we can act without having full analysis and risk definitions and so on and so.

So it took us 3 years, and it is not done fully at the moment, but -- and people start respecting each other, yes. And then if they are starting cooperating and they see that there are results and it's a mixed approach, that works, yes. But that was really a culture issue. And interestingly, if you look at -- there are international studies, yes, and overall, there is a positive perception these days of German companies with Polish employees and vice versa. So that was an issue for us. Now it's much less than it used to be 3.5 years ago when we started.

All right. Thank you so much, Jakub. Now I see no further questions, and that means we will come to the end of the presentation and of the call. So thank you for your time, and so for your passionate presentation as well answering the questions. And also a big thank you to you, ladies and gentlemen, for your shown interest. So should further questions arise maybe at a later time, you see here the contact details. I guess Jakub and his team are happy to answer follow-ups. And yes, thank you for joining.

And Jakub, last sentence belongs to you.

I encourage all German investors investing in Poland because Poland is the winning country this year and encourage Polish investors to invest in Germany because the size is so enormous that really everybody can win there, yes. So there are benefits for both investing in each other. And we are neighbors, yes, and we have to be in Europe more united actually because only Europe working together can win against U.S., against China and against India, yes, which is coming as a superpower. So we have to be together, simply.

So let's keep that superpower. So having said this, we say thank you, and goodbye.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

[Audio Gap] English with a great company, FamiCord, formerly VITA 34, and I'm very happy that Jakub, the CEO; and Thomas CFO, are here to present the company in the usual manner, 20 minutes, roughly, presentation, and then we have enough time for Q&A session. So Jakub, please, stage is yours.

Good morning, still morning, everybody. So we'll short represent the company and also comment on H1 results we published today in the morning. So FamiCord is a stem cell bank collecting cells from newborns and these cells are kept for future use to treat either child or family members. And we operate in several countries. We have, by far, the largest European player the #3 in the world. We control 55% of European market, and we have more than 1 million of biological samples stored.

As you can see, there are maybe too small numbers, but usually in the country where we are in the country, we are #1. But definitely, we are among top 3 players everywhere, #1 in Germany, #1 in Poland, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Portugal. So maybe I will talk about exceptions. So it's Romania, we are #3 in U.K., where we are #2 and Emirates where we are #2. And we have pretty diversified laboratory structure across Europe. Most of our competitors, they have one central laboratory in our strategy is different. We have used the local laboratory in the country because, for some reasons, we believe it brings value to our clients.

So how the service looks like. Simply, when the family or couples are pregnant, they may consider storing of biological material, which could be collected after the babies already delivered. And that material is later used for -- for potential treatment. How we do that? So we have to get the access to the family first, right? So we have sales and marketing activities. We are operating through the medical representatives, visiting doctors, midwives and hospitals as well as we have call center activity, calling potential clients or so-called leads to convert them become our clients. So we are obviously participating in medical congresses babyfurs, we are giving lectures and pregnancy schools. We are using social media, all possible channels to get to the pregnant capital. And then the family may order the service. It could be done in various ways. That also depends on the country and the local regulations, which are different in different countries. So when the contract is finally signed we ship so-called collection kits to the family and then they have to take it to the hospital when the child is born, give it to the staff of the hospital. We trained the staff at the hospital, so they are aware of that. And then courier is taking up the sample. The sample is shipped to one of our laboratories and then its process test and kept for possible treatment in the future.

That market is very different in Europe overall. You cannot say about European market. You can see here, we say about called penetration, yes, this is the amount of percentage of families buying that kind of therapy. So you can see countries with relatively high penetration, 5% is Portugal, Hungary, Romania, and we have countries with relative low penetration or something in the middle. Germany is below 1%, right? Why it is so? There are several reasons. First of all, it's a behavior of the society. I mean, importance of the family, the way the families are taking decisions medical environment, awareness of the service, the way you can conduct marketing or sales activity so that there are some countries which much -- where it is much easier, some with limitations. And also scientific and medical background of the given country. Yes, in some countries, stem cell therapies are simply much more popular than the others in the others. So on average, Europe is around 2%. And comparing to U.S., which is 3% to 4%, this is still place to grow and selected Asian countries, they have more than 10%. It's Korea, for example, Taiwan. And I mentioned about certain issues in Europe, and it's difficult for Europe not only for our industry. I mean, we are overregulated, yes. And we spent, for example, supporting 1 family, 7 years at the court in Spain. And after a final ruling of Supreme Court, we can collect [indiscernible] in all territory of Spain. Before, it was not possible. So we have still places we can simply improve the penetration. And one of the key countries we believe in is Germany.

There are certain things we cannot really influence, yes. number of new boards in Europe is going down and will continue going down. That's an issue of all developed countries. Should we take care of that? Not really because we cannot change it. So we should just find countermeasures to prevent that topic to influence us too much negatively yes. COVID 2020, it happened. Can we change it? No. Obviously, there are consequences. We had limitations in access to hospitals, but it's gone. Okay, COVID is there, but it's part of the daily routine and it's not influencing us anymore. But that hit us at the time, and that took us 2 years to recover. Our former European competitor bankrupted, which really hit trust to the industry. If you store material for 20 years, you expect it's like in the bank, yes, it is safe. Our competitor bankrupt. But we protected the samples, belonging to 300,000 families year from 50 countries in Europe and Asia. So -- but that was 2019, so the trust is already rebuilding. So these are things we cannot really change. So you can name them black swans, but we are not really focusing on them at the moment. Russian war in Ukraine, yes, we cannot change it. Obviously, that triggered issues in several European economies.

But on the other side, yes, I think that we can we can improve our results and Thomas will now comment shortly on interesting things, yes.

[Foreign Language] I mentioned before about -- you saw them up, but it's more about where we can grow. At the moment, what we can see is really a strong recovery in Eastern Europe understood as Poland, Hungary, Romania, and we believe also, and this is why we conducted that acquisition in Slovakia and Czech Republic that the growth also will be there. We see, let's say, mixed picture in Central Europe. We are facing issues in Germany. And South of Europe is -- depends, again, I mean, we have countries doing pretty well and countries which are underperforming. So Spain is doing pretty well. Overall, Portugal is not doing that well. So it's a mixed picture.

But overall, ultimately, I believe that we are able to grow this, let's say, penetration ratio further. At the moment, if you look at our historical numbers, we are rather increasing market share than being able to grow penetration with some exceptions, yes. exception is Poland for sure. We faced similar problems like in Germany after all these black swans we dropped sales, 40% actually, and we recovered already half of that, yes. And we are -- this year, growth in Poland in terms of new units is more than 20%, yes, year-over-year. So I think it's really good. So we only believe that if economy gets more stabilized, we will have really tough to grow. And also, we have a new member of our Board. She joined us 1.5 years ago. And also, we established a position of Medical Director, which altogether should simply bring us to better numbers, and we are simply trying to take our best from the countries we are really doing well to the countries we are not really happy with the results yet.

Competition is something which are actually lacking because we understand that competitions are helping. It's a paradox. We have monopoly in Germany, monopoly. In Poland, we have 90% of market share. On average, we have roughly 70% of market share. This is a problem because this is so new service that if there are less companies marketing it, there is smaller awareness, this is a niche product. Yes, we will never reach of penetration of the service. So we see why Romania, you know that Romania is the largest market in Europe, not percentage-wise, in number of collected samples. Why? Because there are 11 companies. So banking is trending. There are private networks of hospitals having own core blood banks. So it is simply pumping up the interest. So competition helps. So if you have a company which has no competitors ask also a question, especially in consumer market. I think in B2B is different, yes. But in consumer market, competition helps in growing the awareness. So -- so -- but we see -- I mean, if you compare what it was '22, and we can -- really '22 was a very, very bad year and then we started slow recovery in H2 2023, and we continue 2024 and 2025 is looking good, and perspectives are looking pretty good as well. So we continue with -- so we confirm our outlook after first half of the year is published today in the morning.

We've been in talks with the Czech and Slovakian companies at the time. So this is why one of the reasons we had this guidelines pretty broad, that we rather assume we will be in upper range because we knew that, that acquisition will sooner or later happen. As we are not -- in H1, we did not consolidate results of Czech Republic and Slovakia at all. And because it will do it in since H2. So summarizing, I mean, we continue improving our results. We're already think the tenth quarter in a row. Some markets are really doing 3 well. Placenta will help us. And maybe that was not told. Placenta is recognized in many countries as a source of life. And why core blood is -- what is core blood, Nobody knows, but everybody knows what is placenta. And we can see that it's more naturally accepted by doctors, midwives, also patents. Why it was not before? Because of the science, development of therapies, experimental therapies from stem cells, from placenta is after core blood and after core tissue. 10 years ago, we got the first license for placenta banking in Poland. And our sales team rejected to sell it because there was not enough evidence it makes sense. So it's strange, yes. team, they always like new things. No. Now we have enough science behind, so we decided to roll it out, and we can see positive outcome in several countries. And we continue investments, particularly in social marketing in Germany and Poland because these are 2 biggest countries in our group, and we'd like simply to grow them because the gain is the biggest there. So I think that's...

That's it.

That's it. Thank you. If you have any questions, yes.

Jakub, thank you, Thomas. So yes, we're open for questions. I would start with the first one. I think it's for you, Thomas. If we look at the guidance, you're already halfway there. And you just said you will be consolidating some additional, yes, some additional EBITDA in the second half. So is there anything we have to factor in for the second half of the year? Or is it a very conservative outlook judging from today?

I would rather say it's a realistic one. You're comfortable to achieve our guidance. So yes.

I mean, we corrected guidelines in our history up. Yes. So I think it's better to stay on this -- I mean, today, the economic environment is fragile. Everything may happen, yes. So it's -- we believe it's better to rather become more on the safe side and correct it up rather than correcting down, yes.

Maybe a quick follow-up. In your report today, you mentioned that you will be focusing more on the core and that the EBITDA is sort of the continued operations. Is there -- what is the figure for the discontinued operations? And maybe you can just shed a bit more light on that topic, yes, what that sort of means?

What I can say. So we had -- we have the company, which is called FamiCord Therapeutics, which was established in 2020 and with the aim of development of, let's say, CAR-T product -- on CAR-T product. At the time, completely different times. We had money for new investments and also CAR-T was a very hot topic. It's still a hot topic, but we realized after 5 years that actually we are too small probably to develop that product by ourselves. So that will cost us too much. So you invest in new things to get return in a reasonable period of time. So after, let's say, verification of a couple of years, we got to the conclusion it's simply is too risky. So we have good results. We started clinical trial. Patients were there, and they were cured with our CAR-T, but simply, we will go further, we'll need money. And at the same time, as said before, we should focus on core business because we see better returns and faster returns. In terms of money, is how much -- we've been burning between EUR 1 million to EUR 2 million per year in this company. So not that much for a biotech project. But the reason is that we got a grant from National Agency of medicine in Poland of EUR 10 million, roughly 50% reimbursement ratio. So we are burning more, but that was compensated by that grant. That grant is still there, yes. So you may say that we are improving our results by between EUR 1 million to EUR 2 million if you compare to last 3, 4 years depending on the year of comparison. And the company will continue. Minority shareholders declare that they will support it. Yes, they would raise capital likely in Q4, and we will drop with our shareholding, but not to 0, but below 20%, and we will continue simply as you may name it a financial investor.

So thank you very much for the presentation. And I wanted to understand better, is there anything which could drive the demand for putting blood or placenta or any other biological means into a database beyond the current levels I mean because looking at the scale, right, the more you scale, the more viable your business model will become. What is your vision for demand going forward, 5 years plus?

I mean as I mentioned, we have 2 changes in the Board, right? So first of all, we established the position of Chief Medical Officer, right? And Thomas who used to lead commercial parties now in that plays a medical doctor. And the reason we established that is not artificial. I mean we have to trigger more therapies in Europe. But we are not talking about, let's say, full-scale clinical trials, which requires billions actual or hundreds of millions to get the registered drug with the chance of 5%, it will be simply successful. We found out that the major issue we have in terms of particularly in Germany, is that if the family is aware of the service is asking friends, fellows, doctors and midwives. But who is the doctor they ask, gynecologists, there are almost no applications of stem cells in gynecology. So then gynecologists are referring to those other doctors who may say a word, hematologists, transplantologists, neurologists. And here in Germany, in particular, is very limited use of stem cells besides use of bone marrow. Bone marrow or peripheral blood is used, but nobody thinks -- these are stem cells. These are stem cells, but you say bone marrow. So we realize that there are plenty of doctors in several countries interested in doing something, but they don't know how to do it.

And at the same time, there is enormous amount of money in grants from European Union available also in Germany in other countries, but they don't have time to prepare this grant. So we like to replicate what we did in Poland that we are helping the doctors. We write the grant. 80% of the content and then hospital University ask for money. The chance of getting is this 20%, 30% is high. So if you request, I don't know, 10 grants asking for EUR 150 million. The hospital will get out of that something, yes, statistically, and then these doctors are starting using stem cells in treatment. And then awareness is built. That will take time. But in Poland, when we have now opened and say, "Oh, stem cell is gone. That was a story 20 years ago." We have allies. Sorry, I'm a professor, I'm using stem cells in my clinic. Don't tell me. Maybe you are not using. So we don't have it in Germany. We like to have it is here in the U.K. and Spain because these are the countries. Okay. U.K. is the most developed biotech market in Europe, right? And Spain is also in biologics really very well cell and gene therapies. They are very well. We need to build it up. And then indirectly, we will influence the demand for banking because I can tell you that from our clients' perspective, it does not matter whether this is core blood or tissue cell placenta stem cells should treat people today, not scientifically, yes, not paper. So that, we believe, will bring results, but that will take time, and we need to change the attitude. And if you compare to what's going on in Taiwan and Korea, it's completely different, yes.

One question. Could you explain how public banking compares to your penetration rate?

Very well. First of all, we are also running public banks, yes, in some countries, yes, that we are accepting donations and then we can -- these samples are registered in the global registry. So there is no competition between public and travel banks. Why? I mean if someone -- it is like, okay, you are using public transport, but at the same time, people are using cars. You can do it if you can afford it. The difference between public and Travel bank is obviously that if you donate the sample, you lose it forever because you cannot take out the donation. So it might be that you need your sample, but it's not available and more because someone else took it. The problem of public banks is they lost financing because health care systems now in the world are under big pressure. The new therapies are more and more expensive. Also, the medical doctors are -- and medical staff are requiring more money and so on and so. So there are restrictions in, let's say, funding of public banks. And also the way public banks are -- we should understand how the procedure of use of stem cells is constructed in most of European countries. If you need stem cell for routine therapy today, there is a price that health care insurance system is paying to the hospital. So there is a fixed budget, let's say, EUR 150,000, all the procedure, everything. Public Bank when releases the sample charges the hospital between EUR 250,000 to EUR 50,000 per sample. So the hospital prefers bone marrow or peripheral blood because the price is EUR 5,000 or EUR 6,000. So it's not using the sample from public bank because they have samples available from living donors. So this is the problem why public banks are suffering. Why they are charging EUR 25,000 to EUR 50,000 because they are too small to offer this -- this core blood for a lower price. You need to scale.

If you take the blood from private bank, you pay nothing because it was paid by the parents. So there are pluses and minuses involved. And I think that actually, everybody should bank even publicly, but there is obviously no money because the system does not have money for that. So there is a lot of discussion -- there are a lot of discussions how to improve the entire system, but there is no easy answer. I mean there was a trial in Qatar. They wanted to collect from all the patients to keep it and then they design because of economic reasons, yes. So I don't see competition, yes, honestly speaking. Public banks are not happy with private banks. Why? Because when public bank is collecting the samples, they are throwing away 80% of the samples. Why? Because they like to have the best samples why they like to have the best samples? You think that this is for the patient? No. This is because they have a high chance to sell that. If the sample is too small, the other public bank we offered at better quality. So they are destroying good samples to be able to sell. They are competing each other. There are 2 winners, Barcelona Stem Cell Bank and Antonella from U.K., they are massively best in Europe, yes. because they reach the scale.

And therefore, in Germany, public banks are gone. They don't have money. The largest industrial door, no more collections, yes. Coscareras, no more collections. Money [indiscernible] through.

And I have a question about the electricity costs in your business. I think it's one of the main portions or main cost drivers. As we have the situation in Europe that the acuity prices are still at a high level in comparison to the pre-crisis level. What would you say is the percentage in your average product is the first question. The second question is are you allowed to transfer placenta or stem cell samples from one to the other country?

Second question is easier. With the exception of Germany, it's pretty easy. I mean, in some countries, although there's a freedom of flow of goods, you need a permit within European Union, but to obtain that permit is rather easy. So we have examples even with Switzerland, which is not European Union. So overall, after certain bureaucrats, you can easily transport samples across European countries. Germany is different, okay? In practice, it's very difficult to get -- to operate in Germany, for example, with outside laboratory. I mean there is no one doing that actually. This is a barrier we think is in our favor because if you like to get to Germany, in fact, you have to invest in Germany to establish entire structure in here, which is good for us as a monopolist, obviously.

But from a practical point of view, obviously, it is not helping because sometimes maybe we may be considering to have too many laboratories, yes. But it does not matter whether it's placenta, core blood or core tissue. Here, regulations are more of the same with the exception of Germany, which is much more strict.

Regarding costs, I mean there are 2 things. I mean, I will first start with the prices for the clients. So we have completely different price structure depending on the country, because we are simply selling at the price which should be affordable for the society. And obviously, if there is more competition, competition is also setting the prices. So -- and then obviously, it's a cost question. What happened with the cost over the last 5 years.

One thing which definitely is challenging for us is growing demand for salary increases, yes. And cost of people in our case is important, yes. We are a services business, yes. So we have pressure for salaries, particular in Eastern economies because average salaries are growing 7%, 8% per year. And we are not fully able to compensate the growth of salaries with the growth of our services. So we are growing the practice of our services, but not in line with growth of our personnel costs. Fortunately, Administrative costs are rather fixed. The cost of goods are more or less in line of inflation. I don't know whether I answered the question fully.

Electricity, but maybe we can follow up on...

Electricity is not a problem. It's a minor cost. Electricity is...

Thank you Thomas. Thank you, Jakub. And the next presentation here will be dynamic. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.